Kinks, Fetishes, And Why People Like Them

Someone asked Jane if he could saran wrap her boobs, which sets this episode's tone: honest, hilarious, and more thoughtful than you’d expect. We discuss sexual kinks and fetishes without fake shock or shame, using real experiences and real definitions so you can finally understand what people mean when they say “I’m into that.”

We break down the kink vs fetish difference in a way you can actually use in dating and relationships, especially when desires don’t match perfectly. Foot fetish comes up a lot and we explore the psychology theories people use to explain it: conditioning, reward loops, disgust and taboo, and even the brain science that links sensory maps of feet and genitals. If you’ve ever thought “I don’t get it,” we give you a different way to think about it.

Then we go straight into watersports, also called urolagnia. We talk about why people find it intimate, taboo, or comforting, share surprising sexual fantasy stats, and add practical sexual health and consent considerations (including what not to do, and how to reduce risk if you’re experimenting). We also touch on auralism, exhibitionism, mummification, age play, and BDSM dynamics, with a clear through-line: two consenting adults, good communication, and a safe word when you need one.

If you like episodes that mix research, storytelling, and real-life boundaries, hit subscribe, share it with a friend who loves a spicy psychology deep dive, and leave us a review. What kink or fetish do you still not understand, or what do you wish more people talked about openly?

Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jane: The same guy who liked my feet, did ask me though if he could saran wrap just my boobs. And I was just like, no, no, you can't, because even just that thing.

[00:00:10] Heidi: Constriction would. Yeah. 

[00:00:12] Jane: Because I was like, I don't, I just had a feeling this is not gonna end with boobs. I, I, he, he was just like, we could just wrap it up. And I'm, I was like, like a cocoon. And I'm like, Nope. Hard pass. 

[00:00:23] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is The Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari.

[00:00:38] Etienne: On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about sexual kinks and fetishes. And my fun fact for today are famous people who are into foot fetishes or just feet in general. And one of the famous personalities is Quentin Tarantino. And I didn't even know this until my ex-boyfriend brought it up multiple times.

[00:00:59] Etienne: And then can you think of that famous scene in. Oh, gosh, what is the name of that movie? The one with, uh, where we Selma Hayek. We'd never seen Selma Hayek before where she plays that vampire at that bar. They go to the bar. It's like a, it's like two different movies

[00:01:15] Heidi: From Dusk Till Dawn.

[00:01:16] Etienne: That's it from Dust Dawn. And there's that famous scene where she's dancing like an exotic dancer and her naked feet, kind of like pointing in somebody's face. I'm like, yeah, that didn't, uh, strike me. Doesn't it? She is so hot. But, other famous people, you guys are gonna be surprised about this. I think Idris Elba, who's hot as hell, I think. Elvis Presley, Andy Warhol, Casanova, like the famous Casanova, Ted Bundy, and

[00:01:44] Jane: Ugh.

[00:01:45] Etienne: then three famous writers that I'm kind of like, what F Scott Fitzgerald.

[00:01:51] Jane: Oh.

[00:01:51] Etienne: Dostoevsky. Thomas Hardy.

[00:01:54] Jane: Oh wow. Oh.

[00:01:56] Etienne: I know.

[00:01:57] Jane: You love Thomas Hardy.

[00:01:59] Etienne: I know. I was like. I can't think of, I mean, it's kind of like your parents describing how they have sex. When you think of Thomas Hardy having a foot fetish. 'Cause I don't think about sex with Thomas, I think about the Moors, just these awesome, English landscapes and they do not involve bare feet and being sexualized in any way, but.

[00:02:18] Jane: Uh, he was into a lot of phallic symbols, so maybe, I don't know. It, it's not really surprising. I'm just wondering how we know this. Like, did they write letters to someone and be like, her lovely feet. I cannot wait to eat. Like, what does, what was the

[00:02:31] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. How do they know this?

[00:02:33] Etienne: Yeah, I do, I did not, I'm not a journalist, so I did not find multiple sources. Literally found one or two sources and was like, okay, we'll just throw that out there. So if I'm wrong, I apologize. But yeah, that's the rumor at least that all of these people, Idris Elba actually did admit to it on the Graham Norton Show. So I watched that clip. So he does have it for sure, and we come on Quentin Tarantino, I think he actually

[00:02:55] Jane: That. Yeah, that none of that surprises me. In fact, none of the modern stuff, 'cause there's always like some podcast or something where they're admitting to these things. It was just like, I'm just thinking, did Thomas Hardy, like it must have been disclosed in a letter or something like that and F Scott Fitzgerald.

[00:03:09] Jane: That doesn't really surprise me. I don't know. There was a lot drinking happening and a lot of just like, just go ahead, show me your feet and I'm not surprised. But those are definitely fun. Mine is more clinical actually.

[00:03:22] Etienne: Hmm. Okay.

[00:03:23] Jane: Clinical do, because this was from the National Institutes of Health and I thought, wow, they actually surveyed people to ask this. But, the most common kink, according to their inquiries were spanking and hair pulling and mostly prominent among women wanting to engage in or wanting to receive those acts. And that's definitely me. So I thought,

[00:03:52] Etienne: Both those, Jane, or just

[00:03:54] Jane: Yeah, both of them with the hair pulling, not too hard though.

[00:03:58] Etienne: Yeah, we don't actually wanna remove hair. You have to grab enough of it so none of the hairs come out.

[00:04:02] Jane: Yeah, I don't want, I don't want any hair coming out. I'm already menopausal, premenopausal, whatever, losing hair anyway, please leave my hair intact, but definitely pull it. So, but I was actually, I thought, oh, I didn't even think of those as kinks because they're just something that I like and I just thought, oh, that qualifies? Okay. But, that still makes me vanilla, I guess, because those are the most common ones.

[00:04:26] Etienne: Oh my

[00:04:27] Jane: Heidi, what did you find that was fun?

[00:04:29] Heidi: Well, I was researching everything and when I searched for kinks, the Kinsey Institute came up and they had done research and apparently at least 98, almost everybody has a sexual fantasy that they're into. And so I found that fascinating that almost everybody has these type of things that they're into or sexually excite them. And then I.

[00:04:56] Etienne: kinda scared that there's actually 2% that don't like are they, so like, are they serial killers? Like how do you not have a sexual fantasy?

[00:05:03] Heidi: Well, maybe asexual, I don't know.

[00:05:05] Etienne: Oh, okay. Okay.

[00:05:06] Jane: true. That's true.

[00:05:07] Etienne: it could be 2% of aso. Yeah, that's okay.

[00:05:09] Jane: And if you're ace out there, like no offense, it's just, it's very

[00:05:12] Etienne: No, you can do what I, whatever you want or don't wanna do, that's up to you.

[00:05:17] Jane: It's just hard to imagine

[00:05:19] Etienne: Yeah. 'cause I've had sexual fantasy since all as long as I can remember, so I, I can't imagine not having them. Yeah. But wait, there was more that you found out? Yeah. You found out some more stuff though

[00:05:29] Heidi: Well, when researching kinks in general, going through the list, I found out about auralism, which I've always had apparently, but I didn't know there was a name for it or, so 

[00:05:40] Etienne: Is that spelled a-u-r? How do you 

[00:05:43] Heidi: A-U-R-A-L-I-S-M and it means you're aroused by sound, so like.

[00:05:50] Etienne: Like somebody's voice

[00:05:51] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:05:52] Etienne: talking on the.

[00:05:54] Heidi: Stop. Yes. Somebody's voice. Well, well, somebody having an orgasm really loudly is a huge turn on to me. And, yeah, they're aroused by sounds. So, usually if you're into ASMR and get the tingles, a lot of times those are correlated. And I do. So, yeah, it was fascinating to look more into that and explore something new, I guess.

[00:06:19] Heidi: Because I always knew that I do like public sex. I guess it's a exhibitionism kind of thing, but I don't wanna have a full audience. It's the risk of being caught, I guess.

[00:06:31] Etienne: So if you actually were caught doing stuff in public, would you be mortified or how do you think you would react? Or has it happened so you know exactly how you react?

[00:06:40] Heidi: I don't think it's ever happened, but, or maybe, the hot tub thing at the Residence Inn when I was a teenager. I think several people, but

[00:06:48] Etienne: Wow, that seems really risky

[00:06:49] Jane: Yeah, hot tub.

[00:06:51] Etienne: and in water.

[00:06:52] Heidi: Yep. I wasn't very smart back then. There's a lot of alcohol involved, horny teenagers, going wherever they can

[00:07:03] Jane: So you could have been, someone could have been observing you, but you were unaware.

[00:07:07] Heidi: I was. Yeah

[00:07:08] Etienne: okay.

[00:07:08] Heidi: exactly. Yeah, so I don't know it, yeah, it was more of the risk thing, but yeah, it was interesting to go down this path and just go, and there's some things that I wanna explore that I've never done before, so eventually maybe I'll get a partner and can get into some of those things.

[00:07:28] Etienne: We talked about fetishes or kinks that we're confused about when we were discussing having this as one of our topics for an episode. And I've always been so confused about foot fetishes in general.

[00:07:40] Etienne: That's why that I learned about the famous people because I said, yeah, I don't get it. So it was interesting to, I mean, I kind of wish I did, but I don't get it. And I did find out that according to a couple websites that the Foot Fetish, not kink, but a foot fetish is actually the number one fetish when we're talking about objects, or parts of a person's body that's not considered sexual. And it's also called podophilia, which I have a feeling if you are a foot fetish person, that you're not going around calling yourself a podophilia because that

[00:08:19] Heidi: That's so, yeah,

[00:08:21] Etienne: like

[00:08:21] Heidi: it just sounds so bad.

[00:08:23] Etienne: Calling. I literally put podophilia in Google and it brought up all this pedophile shit. So like, obviously nobody's going around talking about podophilia, but that is the term for foot fetishism. But it's estimated that people with true foot fetishes make up one to 5% of the population. A fetish is described as when somebody has a fixation on an object or body part. Again, that's not considered sexual usually, and that object is then required for them to get turned on to have pleasure or to actually have a climax.

[00:08:56] Etienne: So that's way different than just I think a kink obviously, where we're just like, yeah, I'm just turned on by this. I may not have an orgasm from somebody pulling my hair or whatever, but, if I required that, like pull a harder, or for you're biting me and I need you to literally break skin before I can have an orgasm. Like that sort of thing that's different. I think that's an actual fetish. Then,

[00:09:16] Jane: all fetish are kinks, but not all kinks are fetish.

[00:09:19] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. Fetish. Typically, it's concentrated on like an object or body part, right? Where a kink is like kind of a overall behavior. Yeah. Where you don't need that to,

[00:09:32] Etienne: I think you can still have a kink related to feet. Not having it like, you know, oh, I have

[00:09:37] Heidi: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:38] Etienne: to, you know what I mean? Like,

[00:09:39] Heidi: Yeah. Yep.

[00:09:40] Jane: But if it's a fetish, you're like, I really do need the foot.

[00:09:43] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:09:44] Jane: and I just can't.

[00:09:46] Heidi: the difference. Yep.

[00:09:47] Jane: Oh, I can't. That's like my sister's worst nightmare. I f ever because she's, oh my gosh, you even just show her, like, if I took my foot out of my shoe and just wiggled it in her direction, she'd be like, stop it, stop it.

[00:10:01] Jane: So like, this is like the worst. And I think that, that I'm not really into, I think feet are ugly for the most part, like my own and other people. I've never looked at someone's feet and been like, oh yeah. So like that's definitely one that I

[00:10:12] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:10:12] Jane: So, is there. When you looked stuff up, Etienne, did you come across anything that said what origin of that might be?

[00:10:19] Etienne: I did actually. 'Cause that's the main thing. I was like, why? They have theories. They have theories, they can't say for sure. But, the first one is related to conditioning. So just like Pavlov's dogs when they salivated when they heard the bell before dinner. So they would always salivate even if there was no dinner coming. That's classical conditioning. So in the context of foot fetishes, you could say that I am playing on the floor as a child. I'm happy. I feel secure. I'm in my home. I'm surrounded by my caregivers. I'm at their foot level. They might be barefoot, they might have shoes on.

[00:10:54] Etienne: So I start relating my comfort and security and happiness to feet, whether they're bare feet or shoes, you know, they have shoes on. That's one way that they think that this could start. Another one is about operant conditioning, where it's related to rewards and punishments. So think of operant conditioning like every time I brush my dog's teeth, I give him a whimsy after. So he is getting rewarded for allowing me to bring that toothbrush to his mouth and letting me brush his teeth. So in this sense, if we're talking about like a positive thing, say that I am in the first throes of my sexual exploration and I'm with a partner and I do something to their feet and it turns them on so much that I then start thinking about how much pleasure they got out of the foot and relating it to sexuality. So that might be the beginnings of a foot fetish or kink.

[00:11:49] Etienne: And also there's the whole punishment idea of you're saying about your sister thinking that feet are disgusting. Well, I mean if the majority of, not majority, but if like it's more common for people to think that feet are disgusting, or for people to think of feet as a sexual object, most people might think that's kind of gross, possibly. 'Cause you think about dirty feet or deformed feet, et cetera. Then we're relating feet and this kink or fetish to repulsion. And for some reason, something that we're repulsed by in everyday life can sometimes become irresistible when we're sexually aroused, which is a little bit hard for me to understand, but I mean, I'm trying, I'm trying, but I guess also humiliation can come into that.

[00:12:34] Etienne: And it's just that, that I almost feel like if that's the way that you arrived at this kink or fetish. If it's starting to disrupt your life in general, and that's the way you're coming about it, maybe consider talking about it with a professional. I don't know. That makes me worry for you a little bit.

[00:12:51] Etienne: That's all. But if it's not disrupting your life and you're happy, fucking go for it, man. Do what makes you happy, I think. But yeah. Oh, there's a whole other theory about where your feet correlate to where they go to your brain, it's right next door to your genitals.

[00:13:08] Etienne: They're neighbors in your brain, so they think there might be some connectivity between those two centers of the brain, which is why foot fetishes and kinks are so popular.

[00:13:16] Heidi: That's what I read too, that the area of the brain, it was so close together that

[00:13:22] Etienne: Yeah.

[00:13:22] Heidi: some overlap.

[00:13:24] Jane: That's

[00:13:24] Etienne: Yep. So that's

[00:13:24] Jane: really good foot rub is like, ooh.

[00:13:28] Etienne: See, I just wanna forward because my feet are tired and sore and it, and they said there's like thousands of nerve innings in your feet, literally thousands. Like I don't know how many the female clitoris has, but it's also thousands. So I'm thinking like there's probably an equal amount or slightly less in the feet. But that's a lot. You know what I mean? I can understand why I don't know.

[00:13:49] Heidi: What about gender differences? Is it more men that have foot fetishes

[00:13:53] Etienne: Yeah, I didn't look that part up. I would think it's more men than women, though.

[00:13:56] Jane: I saw that, I came across that in the reading I did for this, it's more men had feet fetishes than women. And I was like, that tracks. And I just like move it on. 'cause I'm like, ugh.

[00:14:06] Etienne: Yeah. Because feet, yeah, but I can appreciate a woman's foot, like in a beautiful shoe with like perfect pedicure. I can look at that and go, that's gorgeous. My feet don't look like that, but bravo. Like, you're fantastic. But I don't wanna then go suck on them or put them somewhere on my body.

[00:14:23] Etienne: But I can understand women's feet being attractive, just like I think a woman is in general can be more attractive than a man. But that doesn't mean I wanna have sex with 'em, unfortunately. So.

[00:14:34] Jane: Etienne is relented that she's like, why? It would just be so much easier in life sometimes. It

[00:14:39] Etienne: A lesbian.

[00:14:40] Jane: to, yeah. It just doesn't work that way. I did actually. You're reminding me, was in a long-term relationship with somebody who did want to, um, I forgot all about this. I'm not gonna get graphic because I'm now a married lady, but this guy, he did like, he was like, he was like grabbed my feet and he put them together and then he was just like, basically just then fucking my feet.

[00:15:04] Jane: Like, like, just like had him together. And it's like,

[00:15:07] Etienne: I thought his penis was gonna go in between. So he was just putting them together to suck both at the

[00:15:11] Jane: no, no, no, no, no. Put him together to put his penis in between my feet.

[00:15:14] Heidi: Yes, you. Yeah.

[00:15:16] Jane: I was just laying there like, okay. I was so confused and in the moment I didn't wanna say anything because I didn't feel uncomfortable in that this was humiliating to me, or that this violated some kind of principle that I had.

[00:15:29] Jane: It wasn't anything like that. It was just, I was confused. I was like, this does something for you. And. I definitely feel like he wished that it did something for me too, but it was just something like, yeah, I'll let you do that. Whatever. But, he did ask me after the fact he's like, I really enjoyed that. Did you enjoy that? I'm like, I mean, I didn't, I I was like, I'm really neutral. And he was, I could tell he was dis, he was disappointed and then it never happened again.

[00:15:54] Etienne: oh wait. Did he actually finish with your feet? I'm just curious.

[00:15:58] Jane: Yes, and I was just like, I was like, what

[00:16:04] Etienne: I've never done.

[00:16:06] Jane: But I was just like, okay, well now you have to do something to me because that did nothing for me. I'm just laying here watching you do something to my feet and just utter confusion. At least I was comfy. Like I was on a bed, I was just on my back, which is, I, I'm like, I forgot all about this, which is like my feet up and I'm just looking like, I was just observing it with like, like zero arousal, just observing it. And, uh, yeah, just confused.

[00:16:32] Etienne: Oh my

[00:16:33] Jane: So I mean, were any other interesting

[00:16:38] Etienne: No, that, that was really it. I was more interested in the why, because again, I'm trying to understand like, how did it start? And I, I think most of these things start like, you see something maybe too young. Or, you're seeing it at just the right time.

[00:16:53] Etienne: Like your sex hormones are waking up and you see something, maybe you shouldn't. And now that thing is like it's a rolling reel in your mind and it just keeps going. I kind of feel like that.

[00:17:03] Jane: I totally can see that. I could see that happening. I don't know that I can't trace any of my own, like a spanking, 'cause my parents weren't really into spanking. It wasn't like something, you know what I mean? That it was like they were into like a wooden spoon. And I definitely don't wanna be struck with anything.

[00:17:16] Jane: Um, and the hair pulling, like nobody was, you know, it's just something that, I don't know, it's like very primal. So the one that I also don't understand at all, and I did look into like, but nobody has anything where, okay, this, it's probably caused by, you know, this type of experience in childhood, but I did find some descriptors of where it might originate or why people like it more correctly here.

[00:17:44] Jane: But, so the one I looked up is people wanting to pee on each other or be peed on. And it's known as, I'm not gonna say it right, but it's urolagn ia, it is like U-R-O-L-A-G-N-I-A. urolagnia. And I saw this in so many sources 'cause I'm like, how is this a real term that people use to call it?

[00:18:08] Jane: I mean, everybody hears golden showers and it's like a joke. But then the other common term among people who have this kink is water sports.

[00:18:16] Etienne: Oh, okay. I mean that better than golden showers and a,

[00:18:21] Jane: like, oh, I'm into, so if someone winks at you, just

[00:18:24] Etienne: says water.

[00:18:24] Jane: to the wise ladies or, yeah. Like if you're out there and you're dating and this is not your kink and someone's winking at you and saying like, I'm into water sports. Are you into water? They're not talking about water

[00:18:33] Etienne: oh.

[00:18:33] Jane: And they're not talking about surfing. Because if someone had said that to me when I was young and I was still surfing, I'd be like, oh yeah, me too.

[00:18:41] Etienne: I love.

[00:18:43] Jane: No, they would've been like water sports and I was like, oh yeah, I like some water sports. And, then they would pee on me and I would've been so confused.

[00:18:49] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:18:50] Jane: What? But this, I was like, why is this an interest for people? So the psychological factors that might contribute to this, it could be like a conditioning, whereas like when you were talking Etienne about when you're young and something first arouses you, so maybe this is kind of like a, the premise of experience, but if you held your pee as a kid and you really liked it. Right. The feeling of then finally releasing after all that pressure buildup, there are a lot of women specifically who like that feeling and they actually call it a peegasm. I saw that term in multiple sources. And I have to say I've experienced that, not like a sexual pleasure type of way, but definitely understand a peegasm, I've jokingly called it a peegasm when I'm on a really long road trip and I've been holding it for way too long, and I finally find that rest area that's magical and I sit there and have a two minute long pee and actually audibly, oh, like maybe that's as, that's as close as I'm getting to a pee kink.

[00:19:49] Jane: But yeah, that's my water sport is like a road trip from hell. But, other people who are really into this though sexually, they find that release of peeing sexually arousing, and sometimes they like the warmth of it then so that you're not peeing then into a toilet. Like if you're peeing, if someone's peeing on you, sometimes people like the sensation of that, literally the warmth of it. They find it comforting. Some people like the scent of it, which I thought was bizarre because I'm forever not wanting to smell that, 

[00:20:17] Etienne: I know. Are we 

[00:20:18] Jane: human dog or

[00:20:19] Etienne: please? Because

[00:20:20] Jane: Oh my gosh, right? Or pee. But yeah, there's just certain things where you just might have an arousal response to that for whatever reason, giving or receiving. And so the other thing that makes it a real big turn on for some people is that because it's usually a private act.

[00:20:38] Etienne: Hmm.

[00:20:39] Jane: then the taboo factor, right? Of, okay, you're breaking this taboo by doing it in front of me or doing it on me, or allowing me to do it to you. I didn't read anywhere where people then associated this with humiliation. It was more of like vulnerability. And then they saw it as this very deeply intimate act. And I just thought, okay, this is not. I will admit, I had such a bias towards this before I started reading about it, that I was like, this is gross. Why would anybody want to? And then when I read about it, I was like, all right, I get it.

[00:21:10] Jane: Not for me, definitely not for me. But because I have had experiences, in my recent life, and I'm not gonna get too detailed about it, where I have had the experience of squirting, and I'm just gonna say to everybody out there, it's not peeing. You're not peeing when it

[00:21:24] Heidi: Mm.

[00:21:25] Jane: You know that I could understand though, because it was kind of, it was a little bit close to like the peegasm of holding it for a really long time on a road trip. But it's like if you were peeing and having an orgasm at the same time, maybe, but, like a really held in for a really long time. I could, I was almost, yeah, you could almost see it. But there was this other study that I found that was from a book by Justin Lehmiller, who wrote a book called, Tell Me What You Want, which was a book that just highlights research of sexual fantasies. Right? Because I said, how common is this? For people who have this pee kink, it says at least 8% of heterosexual women and 19% of heterosexual men

[00:22:08] Etienne: Hmm.

[00:22:09] Jane: of lesbian and bisexual women.

[00:22:11] Etienne: Oh

[00:22:12] Jane: 40% of gay and bisexual men

[00:22:14] Etienne: Whoa. That, that, that drive went way high all of a sudden. These

[00:22:19] Jane: Right, but this isn't people who actively do it necessarily, but people who are saying, they fantasize about doing it. Um, and that was a study that was from 2020. Um, so, I was surprised about the high numbers 'cause me thinking about it is not the same as fantasizing about it. So someone's fantasizing about, it's much more likely to act it out. But for me, my whole sexual life has been pee before you have sex, pee after you have sex, not during. So it was very, um, eyeopening to me. And, I also wanted to say if anybody. Is somewhat curious about this and wanting to act it out. I did read a bunch also about how urine is not sterile, contrary to popular 

[00:23:00] Etienne: Oh no. 

[00:23:01] Jane: So if you are going to do it, you're pretty safe if it's just getting on your skin. But, if you're someone who also likes to, in the act of all of this experimentation, there's a lot of people who, for part of the pee play is then consuming it, which I was just like, um, yeah, don't do that. That's a little bit more risky. And then there were some warnings saying like, well, if you do though, and then you don't feel well afterwards, go see your doctor. And I was like, holy moly, who's, so, I guess this is a thing, because you could. Then if it gets into other orifices and things like that.

[00:23:32] Etienne: Yeah, don't get in your eyes please.

[00:23:34] Jane: if you get, if it gets it, actually that was a warning that that can cause conjunctivitis, if there's certain bacteria present in the urine. And also, there could be different microbes or whatever that could cause STIs and that type of thing. Also found out there's an entire industry of special sheets for this which, which isn't surprising, I guess because I've looked into kind of like quote unquote sex blankets before, so that, there's a mess on the best of days, which is normal vanilla sex, there's a mess.

[00:24:01] Jane: And so having people put a towel down or something like that. But there's a whole industry of special sheets that they're not only sheets that cover your bed that are flat, but they also have imagine like a little miniature hockey rink that you're putting on top of

[00:24:18] Heidi: The lip. Lip

[00:24:19] Jane: Exactly, Heidi, there's

[00:24:21] Heidi: all the moisture in. Yeah.

[00:24:22] Jane: that if you have a lot coming

[00:24:24] Etienne: you just need a wet vac and then.

[00:24:26] Jane: yeah, I guess it didn't. Wow. Wet vac. Yeah, that'll do it too. But yeah. Is it just so you can collect it all? And it's not going everywhere, but

[00:24:36] Etienne: Oh,

[00:24:37] Jane: I did learn something and now I'm not curious about it for myself, but I'm less judgmental about it, I think, because my first exposure to it was there was a guy, he was on the fringe of my friend group when I was in my early twenties, let's say. Well, I guess I was 19 when I first met him, and we were at a party at his house and he really liked to do a lot of cocaine, which I was not my thing. And most people in that friend group, not their thing, but he would, so he was just always super hyper and manic and always wearing tracksuits now that I think of it.

[00:25:08] Jane: He was, he was quite, he was like a living cartoon character, but he was just, he was always like, Hey, hey, what's going on everybody? I'm, you know, just like sniffing a lot and very hyper. And he, I was needed to use the bathroom, but the one in the hallway was being used. I guess maybe there were a couple people doing cocaine at this party.

[00:25:25] Jane: 'Cause I'm like, how long are we in the bathroom for? And I asked, he was like, yo, you can use the one in my bedroom. It's fine. So I go into his bedroom and there are just out in the open pornography magazines open, multiple magazines open on his bed and like stacks and they were open to pages and people were peeing on each other and stuff that I just was, I was so, I was in shock. I had never seen anything about it, that that was the first time. I was 19. It was the first time I even knew of anybody wanting to do that or doing it to anybody else. The thought had never occurred to me at that point in my life. And, this was before the internet folks, so I just,

[00:26:02] Etienne: Yeah.

[00:26:03] Jane: I was floored and then I could never look at him in the same way. I was like, oh my gosh

[00:26:08] Etienne: Yeah. Especially having them open like, wow, you're that comfortable. You're having a party at your house and you just leave your water sports pornography magazine is just out and about and probably a raid in a way of like, yeah, this is how I just got myself off before the party started.

[00:26:25] Jane: I think a hundred percent. I think that's what he was doing before we got there, and he didn't care. He didn't care.

[00:26:30] Etienne: You know what? I wonder if he was hope. Like I wonder if his little fantasy in his head was, you're gonna use that bathroom, see his paraphernalia, and go,

[00:26:39] Jane: Oh, I wanna do

[00:26:40] Etienne: I saw what you're into. And just give him this little twinkle in your eye and he is like, oh shit, this is on.

[00:26:46] Jane: Yeah. Water sports, wink. No, that was not happening. Also, I was dating one of his really good friends, so, 

[00:26:52] Etienne: Okay. So yeah, that was not gonna happen. Sorry. Fantasy gone

[00:26:55] Jane: Yeah, but I think

[00:26:57] Etienne: or.

[00:26:57] Jane: didn't care. All the above. Maybe

[00:27:00] Etienne: I actually have two experiences with this, then one led to the second one. So if the first one didn't happen, I don't think the second one would've happened. I had my English ex-boyfriend that I was with for two years, he told me pretty early on. And we met when I was like 24 I think. He told me early on that he always wanted a woman to do that to him, to urinate on him.

[00:27:20] Etienne: And, I did do that for him twice. Both times we're in hotel rooms. Once was in a bathroom, but in the bathtub. 'Cause I was like, I can only do it in the bathtub. Don't, don't ask me to do it somewhere else. So that was the first step. And it still was so hard to do, but not as hard as the second time, which was on a hotel bed in a very nice hotel room under his name.

[00:27:42] Etienne: So I don't know what they charged him for this, in Santa Monica, California. And I had to get so drunk. So many beers and I did not let myself pee because I told him that's what we were gonna be doing. As soon as I was like, couldn't to, couldn't take it anymore, and literally while I was over him, straddling him and he's waiting for it to happen, he's so drunk too. He fucking fell asleep and missed like the first few minutes of it and I'm like, wake up, like it's happening.

[00:28:11] Heidi: God.

[00:28:12] Etienne: At the same time, that feeling you were talking about the peegasm dude, it was incredible because I had to go so badly for so long and it took me like at least 10, 15, that's why he fell asleep 10, 15 minutes to get started and that feeling was incredible.

[00:28:28] Etienne: And yeah, he did wake up and did appreciate it. So he did have his experience. When I started dating again after my marriage, and I had that 20-year-old boyfriend that I was with for a couple months, and he was trying to just do everything sexually with me that he could think of.

[00:28:41] Etienne: He asked me what was the craziest thing I ever did, and I told him about this exact experience, in the hotel rooms and the urination, and he was like, Hmm. I wanna do one worse than that. And I'm like, oh God, what, what do you wanna do? Like, lemme see. I know. Tell me what you're thinking. And he was like, I want you to urinate in my mouth.

[00:29:01] Etienne: And I'm like, oh, what I, if I can do.

[00:29:07] Jane: Is that your line? You were like, I can't.

[00:29:08] Etienne: No, I actually did. I did do it. And it was easier to do than, maybe 'cause I'd done it before, since this was time number three. Like I think it's, you know how they say that once you do something the second time is easier. The subsequent times are even easier. I mean, there had been decades between these two experiences, but, I think because I had done it before and I knew I could do it, that I was able to do it and I made sure there was towels underneath him and everything.

[00:29:34] Etienne: I mean, this happened in his bedroom. And not on his bed because I said not on the bed. But yeah, it happened. And so that is probably one of the craziest out there things I've ever done. 'Cause that's way out there. Not gonna do anything with poo, so don't even go there anybody. No. No. Hard. I have a hard line. That's the hard line for sure.

[00:29:54] Heidi: Jane and I have some experience, actually I just thought of this. We have some experience with some pee fetish folks 'cause we did that Depends tryout when we were promoting Shiterature. And we had so many comments of people who wanted to watch us do it or see the inside of the Depends. We were just like, what is happening?

[00:30:16] Jane: yeah. So for context,

[00:30:17] Heidi: became, it became fetish

[00:30:19] Jane: Yes. I think that there were definitely a lot of people who had this as a kink, but I would say that it was also a fetish for some people that extended into like maybe people who like others to dress up as babies and that type of thing.

[00:30:31] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:30:32] Jane: Heidi and I wrote a book called Shiterature that also is out there as a book called Flush This Book that is just truth tales of bodily malfunctions, and as part of our promotion for it, we did this, I guess test for ourselves that we put on YouTube. That was just funny. Just us wearing Depends, but we're fully clothed. And

[00:30:51] Heidi: is just our reactions.

[00:30:52] Jane: our reactions to trying 'em out and we do pee, but you only see our faces and we're sitting in chairs and we're trying to make ourselves pee. And your whole life you're just trying not to pee in your pants.

[00:31:02] Jane: And then we were trying to do it and, and it's really funny, but then people were, not just the comments on YouTube, people then were emailing us privately because we had on our website a contact form and people saying like, oh, you guys are hot. We wanna show us the contents of it next time. Next time, wear diapers and nothing else. And we were just like, oh my God, what just happened? And.

[00:31:25] Heidi: Did we do? We thought it was just funny, and, oh, we had a whole community find it

[00:31:30] Jane: It did not occur to us that people and I think it extended to like, I'll be daddy and you be baby. And we were like, all right, we gotta take this down maybe. Because that was actually another kink that I was wondering about, and I did not research, but people who were like to be babies or that type of thing. Because I have known people who wanted their partners to do that. I've never had anybody ask me to do that, but that was the thing. And when I was looking at the list of the most common kinks, one of them, they didn't call it like, what do they call it? Age play, where one or two consenting adults to take on roles or ages other than their own.

[00:32:03] Jane: And that's like if you've ever gotten someone saying like, yo, like you be daddy. And I'll be mom. Like, like, I mean, and that's me saying, and I'm sorry if I'm judging your kink right now. I don't mean to kink shame anybody. That was just my visceral reaction to thinking about that. But yeah, Heidi and I had that weird Venn diagram mix of people who are into water sports and babies.

[00:32:25] Jane: Yeah. Like diaper play. The diaper thing is a thing for some people too.

[00:32:30] Heidi: Yep. When you guys were researching were there, 'cause mummification was something new that I found. That's why, to be wrapped up in Saran Wrap completely.

[00:32:42] Jane: Yep.

[00:32:43] Etienne: Oh

[00:32:43] Heidi: move. And they say keep air holes going, but

[00:32:46] Etienne: wait, so you're com, your head is completely wrapped. With just air 

[00:32:50] Heidi: And, then they take pictures for future pleasure. But people like to be completely wrapped up like they're a mummy and.

[00:32:58] Etienne: Uh,

[00:32:59] Heidi: that would just,

[00:33:01] Etienne: I think that would scare me.

[00:33:02] Jane: Oh, a little panic attack. The same guy who liked my feet, did ask me though if he could saran wrap just my boobs. And I was just like, no, no, you can't, because even just that thing.

[00:33:15] Heidi: Constriction would. Yeah. 

[00:33:16] Jane: Because I was like, I don't, I just had a feeling this is not gonna end with boobs. I, I, he, he was just like, we could just wrap it up.

[00:33:23] Jane: And I'm, I was like, like a cocoon. And I'm like, Nope. Hard pass. I need to be able to get up and move around if I need to. Why do you wanna do this? He liked the idea of that and just also the fact that it was transparent and that it all smushed. I guess it was just like extreme cleavage. I dunno. Yeah, I'm not into that. I feel claustrophobic actually just thinking about it.

[00:33:47] Etienne: I mean, I could do that with my breasts only, but yeah, thinking about my whole body being saran wrapped with just air holes, like that sounds frightening as f I'm sorry. I mean like, no

[00:33:59] Heidi: So what fetishes or kinks have you guys partaken in that you all enjoy?

[00:34:04] Etienne: I mean, I have in the past very much enjoyed and would still in the future enjoy being submissive. But I would want it to be, because I have had some really positive experiences with it. And I think Heidi, you described the men that I was with, the way I described it, they were pleasure doms because they were definitely there to arouse me with pain. And this one guy definitely, definitely understood how to arouse all of your nerve endings with pain. So then when he switched to pleasure, it was freaking intense as anything I'd ever experienced before. And he also was so experienced with squirting and I hadn't really experienced that before either.

[00:34:44] Etienne: And he could just do it without even thinking about it. So, yeah, I wish I'd had those special sheets and the little drip pan that you're talking about, I could have used it. I, I. Holy shit. I, I didn't, I mean, you're talking about a lifetime of, I mean, it doesn't really build up forever. It would've been taking up my entire body, my, my supply of, of uh, you know, like female orgasm liquid.

[00:35:13] Etienne: But it seemed like it was being released after 40 some years when I got to have that experience everywhere. Um, um, yeah. Uh. I didn't understand before what the appeal was for pain. I mean, I definitely always had, um, fantasies about being tied up and being pleasured in all the ways with me just doing what the person wanted me to do for them, but I didn't have to think about it. Like just completely giving up control. And those fantasies became really pronounced during my marriage. And I have a feeling, I mean, I wasn't having sex, so I wasn't, you know, I mean, I was barely having sex. I was having some sex, but barely having any sex during most of my marriage.

[00:35:56] Etienne: And, I think that the submissive part came into play for me because of my ex-husband's depression. I had to be the one to control everything in the house. I had to do all of the things. I was in charge of everything, and I think I just wanted to give up control. I just wanted to have a moment where it was like I do nothing but just receive and be worshiped.

[00:36:19] Etienne: To receive and be worshiped is like, dude. And in a sense too, I mean, I was reading articles from Psychology Today about it too, that technically because there's a safe word or there should be a safe word always in those situations, in BDSM situations, that that means the submissive party, whoever that is, male or female, is actually the one in control because they can stop everything at a drop of a hat, which is saying the one word. So, the dom, the dominant person in the situation has to always be very attentive and paying attention and seeing how far they can take the submissive to their hard limit.

[00:36:59] Etienne: But not actually getting there. So they're not actually pushed to use the word, but they're exploring how far they can go. And that was the thing with that one pleasure Dom that I was telling you about. I had multiple times with him and each time it went further. So I think that's, he knew how to advance it so that, I mean, if he had done to me the first time, what he did to me the last time we were together, there would've been no chance in hell.

[00:37:20] Etienne: I would've been able to do that. So it was definitely something that he knew how to step it up. Yeah, accordingly. And would just make each time the experience was so intense that you just want more, or at least I did. I mean, he's somebody that you could definitely become obsessed with and I was for a bit there.

[00:37:38] Etienne: So unfortunately, 'cause he was not interested in a relationship. It was all about exploration and sex for him, so, totally understandable. Way too big of a age difference, anyway. He was like 25 when I had sex with him and I was 44 or something. So that is not okay, relationship wise, but sexually, holy shit.

[00:38:01] Etienne: I would not expect a 25-year-old to be able to do anywhere close to what he was doing. You know, it was insanity. It's like he went to a class. He has a PhD

[00:38:12] Heidi: And pleasing women.

[00:38:13] Etienne: in pleasing women, like in ways that you're like, what the fuck? This is like from books. This is not, this doesn't exist in real life and it actually does.

[00:38:22] Etienne: There's one man for sure that knows, and you're like, you come across that and how are you not supposed to get obsessed with that, you know? When you compare it to the rest of what I was experiencing, which was subpar sex with men who barely were like, yeah, do I have to go down on you? Like that kind of situation. You're like

[00:38:39] Jane: Ugh.

[00:38:40] Etienne: what? Like, okay.

[00:38:42] Jane: You are like, yes. Prerequisite baby.

[00:38:44] Heidi: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:45] Etienne: Yeah, every day is Taco Tuesday and I'm, I'm not talking about food.

[00:38:52] Jane: Oh my gosh. That's awesome.

[00:38:54] Etienne: Sorry.

[00:38:55] Jane: Well, I will say that just no matter what you're into, as long as it's not hurting anybody and the partner with which you engage is up for it, and you talk about two consenting adults, enjoy your kinks.

[00:39:13] Etienne: again? Yeah.

[00:39:14] Jane: Be happy. Two consenting adults.

[00:39:16] Etienne: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:17] Jane: I mean, go for it. Knock yourselves out. If it gets you off and makes you happy, then enjoy. And, who are we to judge?

[00:39:27] Heidi: Yeah. Have no shame.

That's our show you've been listening to, the Women are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com and of course you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other.