The Women Are Plotting
Do you know how to use a rotary phone?
Worry about how much Aquanet you inhaled as a teen?
Wonder about the creative worlds of writers?
Believe belly laughs make the best ab workouts?
Seek answers to the mysteries of menopause?
Then welcome to The Women Are Plotting -- a new podcast that allows a peek into the unfiltered minds of three Gen X writers. Give us a listen. And if you like what you hear, tell your friends.
If you have a story or an idea you'd like to share, we'd love to hear from you! Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com
The Women Are Plotting
From Misdiagnosis To Hysterectomy: An Endometriosis Journey Part 2
Part 2 of Martha’s long road through endometriosis continues. In this episode, we discuss more complications she experienced post-hysterectomy, including sudden menopause and the hormone therapy that finally restored her life. We focus on advocacy, access, and the value of specialists who treat endo beyond “bad cramps.”
Yale article mentioned in part 1 & 2:
https://medicine.yale.edu/news/yale-medicine-magazine/article/endometriosis/
Martha's doctors & surgeons mentioned in this episode:
Dr. Rachel Cowherd
https://www.getcare.muschealth.org/providers/rachael-cowherd-1043604374
Dr. Thomas Curran
https://www.getcare.muschealth.org/providers/thomas-curran-1205147022
Dr. Cristian M. Thomae
https://www.getcare.muschealth.org/providers/cristian-thomae-1306934658
Heidi's surgeon in Bonita Springs, Florida:
https://providers.sharecare.com/doctor/dr-jorge-a-valle
Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com and find us on all the socials
Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.
[00:00:00] Martha: And, there's a lot of things out there, that I think it's helpful to feel empowered to suggest these things to your healthcare provider. So if you're having these problems, ask for an MRI. I think that's the biggest thing I took from all of this, because I, for years was told that endometriosis doesn't show up on any imaging. There's no way to see it unless we cut you open. And then when she ordered that MRI that showed everything, basically my mind was blown.
[00:00:26] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is The Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari.
[00:00:41] Etienne: This is the second and final part of our recording with Martha sharing her experience with endometriosis. For part one, please click on the episode before this one.
[00:00:50] Etienne: Did they put you on hormones, like for Replacements?
[00:00:54] Martha: No. Oh yeah. I forgot about all that. Yeah. That's part of why I feel great.
[00:00:57] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:00:58] Martha: Oh yeah, hysterectomy, they were able to leave one of my ovaries, so they left my right ovary, but the other, the left ovary didn't even exist anymore. And so one day while I was at work, I all of a sudden had this shooting pain in my right, like groin back leg area. And, sorry, I just had so many things happen to me in such a short time. I like forget them all. And I was sitting in this meeting for work and I texted this guy that I work with, and I was like, I'm in so much pain right now, and I have a really high pain tolerance at this point.
[00:01:31] Martha: So he was like, well, do you need to leave? And I was like, no, it's probably fine. I'm just gonna push through. And then I start like sweating profusely. Something's wrong. I like couldn't breathe, so I left the meeting. My mom called me to tell me that we had have our 20-year-old cat put to sleep.
[00:01:48] Martha: And I was like, I'm sorry, I can't talk to you right now. I'm in too much pain. And she's like, what? And through all of this, unfortunately, my stepdad was also in end stage renal failure dying. So he was in and out of the hospital, like with me, and couldn't pee either. So we would joke about it. So I went to the a walk-in clinic and they were like, why did you come here? You need to go to the ED. We can't help you. And I was like, because I don't wanna go back to the ED ever again. They almost called an ambulance for me. But my husband came and took me to the emergency room, where they treated me like I was drug seeking.
[00:02:22] Etienne: Oh god.
[00:02:22] Martha: And wouldn't really do anything to help me. I was just in a ton of pain. They did an ultrasound, which didn't really show much, but a lot of ovarian cysts on that ovary. And then some probable new adhesions of endometriosis. And my ovary was now adhered to something in there. Whatever was left they could tell that. But long story short, for like four days, I was in horrible pain, taking heavy pain meds, couldn't go to work. And it turned out that my ovary had torsed over on itself and died.
[00:02:56] Etienne: Oh lord.
[00:02:57] Martha: But once it died, I didn't feel the pain anymore. So I kind of went back to normal.
[00:03:08] Martha: And then one day I was standing in the store Alta and all of a sudden I had like the worst hot flash ever. And, I realized I'd probably gone through menopause. So when I went back home after all that happened, 'cause I was outta town for Christmas. I ended up going and having labs drawn and they were like, yeah, sure enough, you're in menopause. Sorry. And so I asked about hormone replacement and stuff 'cause I didn't wanna have hot flashes.
[00:03:27] Martha: And thankfully that was really the only menopause symptom I experienced. I still felt great other than the hot flashes, which when I told the gynecologist that, she was like, I've never had anyone tell me before that they felt great in menopause. And I was like, well, I guess that shows how bad I felt before because I feel, I feel awesome.
[00:03:47] Heidi: You're like this is paradise compared to before.
[00:03:48] Martha: this.
[00:03:50] Martha: Yeah. So I might, I always thought I would write a book called like, menopause isn't that bad? Or like, menopause is great. I don't know because probably other people out there are not realizing how great menopause can be if the other
[00:04:05] Etienne: compared to what you
[00:04:05] Martha: Yeah. Like compared to all the things I've been through
[00:04:07] Etienne: Jesus.
[00:04:08] Martha: So, she did start me on estrogen replacement. But after that I just felt like sluggish. I felt like I was gaining weight in places I hadn't before. And I'm so sensitive about my weight, which is stupid. I shouldn't be, but I just am. And, I didn't have any sex drive. I just felt like I was getting dry and wrinkly all over and turning into an old woman before my time.
[00:04:31] Martha: So, I actually talked to Etienne. And she told me about hor, like she'd been doing hormone replacement. So I ended up right away being like, I want this. I wanna try this, I wanna do it. So I went to a different hormone replacement place than where the one that I was told by her about only because they didn't answer my phone call. Oh, wow. First, so
[00:04:54] Etienne: Whoever answered the phone first.
[00:04:55] Martha: So I went to the one that my hair girl goes to. And they tested all my levels and really talked to me about how big of a difference it can make to be on not just estrogen. They fully supported the estrogen, but also progesterone and testosterone, which as a woman sounds really scary.
[00:05:13] Martha: And when I told my husband I was gonna take testosterone, he was like, why do you have a bottle of testosterone fair? But that has really, I already felt better after the whole menopause in a minute that happened to me. But the hormones have really made me just feel a way I've never felt before or haven't since I was a child.
[00:05:34] Martha: So I'm in a really good spot right now. Finally, after all of that, I don't wanna scare anyone because typically you have a hysterectomy, you spend the night in the hospital, you go home, it's okay.
[00:05:45] Etienne: You don't have all these complications
[00:05:47] Martha: Whatever, all the things, even typically if you have a bowel resection with it, which is very common, I think that having endometriosis implants or some bowel obstruction with endometriosis is very common. It's a very common place for endometriosis to develop. But I know most people don't have the issues I have.
[00:06:04] Martha: I unfortunately have a lot of nerve damage in my colon still. I have to take a medication called Linzess to be able to poop, which most people, if they took it, would have raging diarrhea. But it just makes me normal.
[00:06:17] Etienne: Oh, wow.
[00:06:17] Martha: And, one of the hangups I have about that though, is in order for insurance to pay for it, it has to say you're taking it for irritable bowel syndrome. And it just irks me that that's in my chart now because that's not why I'm taking it. And I want, you know, you just want the truth. You just want it to say why you're taking it nerve damage. Like why does it have to say irritable bowel syndrome?
[00:06:37] Etienne: Yeah, that's weird.
[00:06:39] Martha: Uh, but it does help a lot. So if anyone out there has similar problems or nerve damage or anything, I highly recommend it start slow,
[00:06:48] Etienne: Low dose
[00:06:49] Martha: Low dose. But, that's my story. And I'm sorry it was very long and rambly and I don't know, it was just a lot to happen to me all at once. So it's hard for me to keep straight sometimes.
[00:06:59] Etienne: I can only imagine. This is the first time since before you ever had your period, this is the first time you haven't had pain.
[00:07:04] Martha: Oh yeah. It's, yeah, it's
[00:07:05] Etienne: I mean, did you have pain all the time before, like when you were
[00:07:08] Martha: I did not realize how much pain I was in until it was all gone. And even when I was having to cath myself and dealing with all of that, I did not care because I felt like a new person, it was worth it. There's probably other people walking around like this that don't realize they're just hurting all the time because that's what they're used to. And so it makes. It just kind of changes probably the way your brain even processes things. It makes you angry.
[00:07:36] Martha: It gave me road rage. I would get irrationally angry about things that you shouldn't be angry about. Which is really not my personality at all. I'm very laid back. I'm very usually just kind of positive. And so it was hard for so long to have that rage and stuff built up in me, and it's all gone now, so
[00:07:55] Etienne: That's so good.
[00:07:56] Martha: Yeah, I know it is.
[00:07:57] Jane: I am so happy for you.
[00:07:58] Etienne: God
[00:07:59] Martha: Thanks. I wish that I didn't have to go through it all, but, I would like to write a book about it one day. I wanna be able to help people. I just wish that there was a better answer than having to have a hysterectomy or having to have surgery or having to turn off your hormones.
[00:08:14] Etienne: Yeah, I wonder if they can identify a gene, so that maybe there could be gene therapy in the future to stop the endometriosis from happening.
[00:08:21] Martha: Yeah, that's a
[00:08:23] Jane: Well.
[00:08:24] Martha: And, it does have a genetic component.
[00:08:29] Martha: My mom had to have a hysterectomy when she was 35 from endometriosis. And then her mother, unfortunately died when she was 41, 42.
[00:08:35] Etienne: Oh my gosh.
[00:08:36] Martha: From ovarian and uterine cancer.
[00:08:38] Etienne: Oh my gosh.
[00:08:39] Martha: Sorry. Not uterine at all.
[00:08:41] Etienne: Oh,
[00:08:41] Martha: she had a hysterectomy and they asked the doctor at the time to please take her ovaries out and he refused 'cause he didn't want her go through menopause. And she got ovarian cancer three months later and died.
[00:08:51] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:08:52] Martha: So I had the trauma of that too. I was always so afraid I was gonna get ovarian cancer or uterine cancer or something. Cause there is some conflicting information out there that says that having endometriosis increases your risk of getting ovarian or uterine cancer. I don't know if it does or not. 'Cause then there's some that says it doesn't. But either way I was really scared 'cause that's so young to die.
[00:09:17] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:09:17] Martha: From that, so,
[00:09:19] Etienne: Oh my gosh.
[00:09:19] Martha: Yeah. But, here I am, since then I've started doing like some functional weight training, like building my muscle back up. 'Cause I was just like, after all the surgeries and things I went through, I was like wasted away, just like a shell of myself for a little while. But now I'm able to like get out and exercise again. And I love doing the functional weight training stuff. I was really scared at first 'cause I don't wanna look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but
[00:09:47] Etienne: I think it takes a lot to take.
[00:09:48] Martha: Yeah. The guy was like, you won't, no, that you can't, that's not gonna happen unless you take steroids.
[00:09:56] Etienne: Way more than the testosterone.
[00:09:57] Martha: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you take that full tube of testosterone.
[00:10:01] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:10:01] Martha: So just
[00:10:02] Etienne: throw back the bottle.
[00:10:03] Martha: Yeah. So, yeah. But I just want anyone that is dealing with similar things to know that, just keep trying. You will find a doctor that will listen to you. You can, I know so many people are, when you're not in the medical field, and even in the medical field, yeah.
[00:10:18] Etienne: Didn't really happen.
[00:10:19] Martha: I still wouldn't advocate for myself. But being in the medical field, I can honestly say I would prefer somebody to advocate for themselves and say, I think I need this test. Or, I think having this imaging might help us get to the bottom of this. Or, I read that this might help, can we try it? Because doctors, I'm not a doctor, but doctors don't know everything. Nurses don't know everything.
[00:10:43] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:10:43] Martha: And, there's a lot of things out there, that I think it's helpful to feel empowered to suggest these things to your healthcare provider. So if you're having these problems, ask for an MRI. I think that's the biggest thing I took from all of this, because I, for years was told that endometriosis doesn't show up on any imaging. There's no way to see it unless we cut you open. And then when she ordered that MRI that showed everything, basically my mind was blown. And I was livid because
[00:11:11] Etienne: that you could have gotten it so many years ago.
[00:11:12] Martha: Done so many, I, it maybe wouldn't have gotten to the point where I had a golf ball of endometriosis.
[00:11:18] Etienne: That could be the name of your book in
[00:11:19] Martha: my butt.
[00:11:19] Etienne: Get an MRI
[00:11:20] Martha: Get an MRI, get an MRI, I don't know, I kind of like, I love menopause or something. I don't know. But also I don't wanna scare anyone with my story, like I said, because it's very unusual that any of this happens. I know many people who have had hysterectomies who were, okay, obviously there's that downtime. It's not easy. It's still gonna hurt. You're still gonna have to, slowly build your strength back up and all of that.
[00:11:47] Martha: And, you may, if you have a total hysterectomy and lose your ovaries, you will have that menopause component.
[00:11:52] Martha: You'll wake up in menopause. So you'll have to talk about, I think it's worth definitely talking about hormone replacement, not just to your gynecologist, but finding a provider that offers the expanded hormone replacement.
[00:12:05] Etienne: And there's a lot of facilities now. It's not like, you know.
[00:12:06] Martha: Yeah.
[00:12:07] Etienne: You only have one choice. Go to the gynecologist.
[00:12:09] Martha: Yeah, exactly. I'm so, so thankful I found the hormone specialist. And you do have to pay out of pocket unfortunately for all of it.
[00:12:16] Etienne: Yeah. That is bullshit way,
[00:12:16] Martha: Except the estrogen. Your insurance will cover the estrogen, but only a certain type.
[00:12:21] Etienne: Yeah. They don't cover mine. My, since they're
[00:12:23] Martha: yeah.
[00:12:24] Etienne: Yeah. The pellets implanted.
[00:12:25] Heidi: Cover bone bills or boner pills, Yeah, the, yeah. But they won't cover stuff. Yeah.
[00:12:34] Etienne: I wonder why that is.
[00:12:35] Martha: No, I know why. Huh? Yeah. So
[00:12:40] Heidi: Crazy. That is insane. I'm so you're feeling better and are so, so here's the question.
[00:12:47] Heidi: Are you having sex again?
[00:12:48] Martha: Yes.
[00:12:50] Heidi: And and it feels okay and you're
[00:12:53] Martha: I was so scared I would never have an orgasm again and I still can't
[00:12:58] Etienne: So they didn't take your clitoris
[00:12:59] Martha: It's different. No, they don't take that out. They don't take that out. Oh my God. That would've been so sad. It was huge for a little while. It
[00:13:09] Etienne: How long did it take to go down, like all of the tissue?
[00:13:11] Martha: Like probably two months. Yeah.
[00:13:15] Etienne: That was a long
[00:13:16] Martha: It was a long time.
[00:13:17] Etienne: I would definitely think it's not going back.
[00:13:19] Martha: I thought it
[00:13:19] Etienne: like this thought.
[00:13:20] Martha: Yeah. I would just, it would look like it was getting better and then I would like wake up the next morning and it was gigantic again. And my mom was there the whole time and I was just like, when is this gonna go away? It looks, you show her a hamburger. I'm sure I showed her not on purpose. I was outta my mind. I dunno. I was, I was just outta my mind.
[00:13:41] Jane: Maybe that should be
[00:13:42] Martha: Yeah.
[00:13:43] Jane: of your book, like get load of this hamburger. No.
[00:13:46] Martha: Oh I love it. Yes.
[00:13:50] Etienne: Oh my
[00:13:50] Martha: Nobody wanted to eat that hamburger. I promise you.
[00:13:54] Etienne: Hamburger. Nobody would eat.
[00:13:55] Martha: That's it.
[00:13:57] Etienne: That
[00:13:59] Martha: the sad hamburger. Nobody wanted to. That's what it became.
[00:14:05] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:14:06] Martha: And when I first had the Foley catheter too, the like,
[00:14:09] Etienne: oh no
[00:14:09] Martha: the tube with the bag of pee in it. I was so careful being a nurse, I know you can get, like, I didn't wanna get an a bladder infection, and by week three, I am lugging the bag. It was like dragging behind me on the floor. I would like pick it up and scroll. I was like, my guess is my new friend
[00:14:29] Etienne: my doing your peri care like every 12 hours that you're supposed to.
[00:14:32] Martha: When I started out
[00:14:33] Etienne: oh,
[00:14:34] Martha: and towards the end I was like, I don't even care anymore. Like whatever. And then I'm so short, you know, I'm very short, I'm like four 11 and they have these like bags you can put on your, on the top of your leg. But I'm way too short for the bag. Like there was no way I could use it, so I just kept having to wear like a skirt in the middle of winter.
[00:14:54] Etienne: Oh.
[00:14:54] Martha: With the Foley catheter, like coming out of the end of my skirt because I just couldn't wear the leg bag.
[00:15:00] Martha: It would not work.
[00:15:01] Etienne: How do you even do your. Did you have to, I was like, how do you put your underwear on, like with that big old tube in the bag? Like
[00:15:07] Martha: it just, did you
[00:15:08] Etienne: have to untake undo the bag to like get it over the, you know?
[00:15:12] Martha: Yeah. You can take the part that attaches to the bag off for a minute.
[00:15:16] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:16] Martha: You just get pee everywhere.
[00:15:17] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:15:18] Martha: But yeah, you can.
[00:15:19] Etienne: Oh my God. You ever think about that? Like, how am I gonna put my underwear on?
[00:15:23] Martha: Yeah. I know. There were so many things I didn't think about.
[00:15:28] Etienne: Oh, God.
[00:15:29] Heidi: With the current state of things with healthcare and our government, I don't know if we're gonna have more women-centric, women-centric, uh, studies and, and advancements done that, that could help future generations. I don't know.
[00:15:44] Martha: I know.
[00:15:44] Etienne: I mean, I really feel like, yeah, HRT should be covered. Just like they cover birth control pills and
[00:15:49] Martha: Yeah.
[00:15:49] Etienne: Viagra.
[00:15:50] Martha: Yeah.
[00:15:50] Etienne: They should cover hormone replacement therapy.
[00:15:52] Martha: They should. It's so important. I'm only 40, I'll be 42 next month, so I'm too young to get osteoporosis and have my muscles waste away. Like
[00:16:03] Heidi: Well, even your brain
[00:16:04] Martha: old, you
[00:16:05] Martha: know?
[00:16:05] Heidi: It affects the brain,
[00:16:06] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:06] Martha: Yeah.
[00:16:07] Heidi: you know, your heart
[00:16:09] Martha: And I will say. Yeah, I could feel some brain fog and stuff before I started the estrogen replacement. And I would get some headaches, and the hot flashes. But other than that, I felt awesome. So
[00:16:22] Etienne: done deal with the fog.
[00:16:23] Martha: Yeah, I'll take the headache or whatever. But it should all be covered. And I am really scared that one day, what if these hormones aren't available one day? Or what if with the state that things are in, like the only place that the linzess, the stuff I take so I can poop with all this nerve damage it's made in like one of the Scandinavian countries.
[00:16:42] Martha: I forgot which one, but it's the only place it's made and there's not a generic of it yet. It's a newer drug. And I'm like, what if our country does something dumb and I can't access that anymore? Like, I do worry about all of these things.
[00:16:54] Etienne: You have to flight to Scandinavia.
[00:16:55] Martha: I'm gonna, yeah.
[00:16:56] Etienne: Six months
[00:16:57] Martha: To get Linzess and fly back. But I am really nervous. Or, if they stop letting us access hormones because they get it all like mixed in with all of the trans drama, you
[00:17:08] Heidi: Yeah, that's, I, I think that's why I had such a trouble getting testosterone from the vA. It took
[00:17:15] Etienne: yeah. So they were giving you the estrogen and the progesterone. Right.
[00:17:18] Martha: Yeah. They had no problem signing off on that, but once my menopause specialist asked about testosterone, there was like. It was a whole rigmarole trying to, and it's like I am not trying to transition, like I just
[00:17:31] Etienne: Right.
[00:17:32] Martha: we have testosterone in our bodies. Women have testosterone, just like men have estrogen. Like we have all the hormones just
[00:17:41] Etienne: just have not as much as they do.
[00:17:42] Heidi: Yeah, yeah. So, but I'm not gonna be taking the full tube and becoming a man. Like, just give so I can feel normal. Like, come on
[00:17:51] Martha: yeah.
[00:17:52] Jane: If we could just depoliticize healthcare generally, that would be amazing. So I think that that's why Martha, we're very grateful to you for coming and telling your story because I think the more people talk about it and then it'll give other people license to be vulnerable and share their stories.
[00:18:09] Jane: And then people will see like, oh, wow. As, long as people say like, oh, this is my friend, this is my sister, this is my aunt, this is my grandmother, this was my mom. Like all of these people across, it doesn't matter what your background is or what your beliefs are or whatever. Like these are experiences of women having health crises.
[00:18:27] Jane: And the more we share them and the more we normalize the sharing of that, I think it's less likely that things get shut down for other reasons. And people say, okay, this needs to be available to everybody because it helps somebody that I know. It needs to be personal. And we're walking the line on the show because this is not a political podcast, but I think that sometimes when you know somebody, it's harder to then just make blanket statements of, well, because my belief system is X then, you know, this group of people shouldn't do it either.
[00:18:58] Jane: But then everybody I talk to has certain beliefs. But then when they find out somebody that they know had an issue and they're like, oh yeah, well, well that should happen. And I'm like, exactly, let it happen and be accessible for everybody. 'Cause nobody should go through what you went through, Martha, was not really part of the politicization of healthcare, but more the result of people just not listening to, and validating, women's own lived experience that you're expressing in a clinical setting. And they're just like, yeah, but probably not. Like what?
[00:19:35] Jane: Like, now I'm thinking everything that you said made me think of my mother has Crohn's and she had really bad endometriosis that was like cleaned out from various places that attached herself to her liver and like some other organs and it was very bad. And her pancreas, I just remember it being like, it was like a similar, where you said like, it was like a mess in there, right.
[00:19:51] Jane: And then I'm thinking of all the issues that she's been having with Crohn's for the past two decades, like after she had a hysterectomy. And I'm just wondering, 'cause she had to go in a couple of times for additional surgeries to have more endometrial tissue removed from various places and they kept calling her jokingly, with various doctors that she kept going to try to get answers, like the mystery woman. I'm like, what if the mystery this whole time has been what you're saying, I'm gonna actually the next time, and this is patient zero here, Martha, that you're impacting, the next conversation I have with my mother is going to be like, Hey, you had endometriosis really bad years ago and you're still having all of these GI issues. Are your gynecology worlds and your GI worlds talking to each other so that we can deliver holistic healthcare to people. I think that that's an issue too. Like you had all of this compartmentalization of trying to treat different things over different periods of time and none of the things were in a proper synthesis to come together and deliver one unified solution for you, which is like, this is what's going on with this poor woman. Like, let's take care of it. So, so
[00:20:54] Martha: Yeah. No, thank you. That makes me feel really good. And I hope that she can get some answers and help. 'Cause I hate that she's still dealing with that. That's, yeah.
[00:21:02] Jane: She too has pooped on a blanket. So like, I mean, I, I.
[00:21:09] Martha: Well, my husband didn't even wanna throw the towel away because he saves everything. And I was like, no, we're throwing this towel away. Why? Why?
[00:21:16] Jane: Making scrapbook. That's the worst scrapbook item
[00:21:20] Martha: I was like, we're throwing away the human turd towel.
[00:21:22] Etienne: no turd towel.
[00:21:25] Martha: We don't
[00:21:26] Heidi: We can buy a new one
[00:21:28] Martha: Yes. We can buy a new towel.
[00:21:30] Etienne: They make more.
[00:21:31] Martha: They make more.
[00:21:32] Jane: On the next episode of hoarders
[00:21:34] Etienne: my gosh,
[00:21:36] Martha: No, it is. Our house does not look like a hoarding house. It's very neat, tidy. But he keeps the most ridiculous things like
[00:21:45] Etienne: oh my God, that's so
[00:21:47] Martha: Yeah. But
[00:21:49] Etienne: oh man.
[00:21:50] Martha: Yeah, it's, I think that's a really good point though.
[00:21:52] Martha: Healthcare is so compartmentalized.
[00:21:54] Etienne: It is. It only has their little specialties.
[00:21:56] Martha: Yes. And you don't think about how connected everything is in your body and how healthcare needs to be more connected like that. It shouldn't take me having all these other symptoms and all the pain in my stomach and rectal area, why didn't I get referred sooner to a GI doctor who maybe would've found the endometriosis.
[00:22:16] Etienne: Yeah, they had to wait. They had poop coming outta your butt.
[00:22:18] Martha: They had to wait till I was pooping red jello. That's why.
[00:22:21] Jane: Well, because then that's something that he could relate to it. He was like, well, I also have a butt, so like, this is terrible that this is happening to
[00:22:27] Martha: Oh yeah. True, true.
[00:22:28] Jane: bleeding from my butt, I would be, you know, so I'm obviously he's that particular doctor was, he's a doctor. He is not just like speaking like that, but I'm just wondering if part of it, like you can't shed the human element involved in the loop. And that's why I kept asking you like the ages of the other doctors that you went to who were female. Because I'm like, how would they not say, because my gynecologist is my age and I don't have these horror stories.
[00:22:54] Jane: 'Cause like she's also like, oh yeah, like I've had all kinds of weird breakthrough bleeding and I had to, she has very frank conversations about her own body also. And saying like, oh yeah, and I'm going through this too. And so we gotta look at some options for you.
[00:23:06] Jane: And I think that it's important. But it should be important to just be empathetic, even if that hasn't been your lived experience. So it does still like that article that you shared, Etienne and Heidi, you brought up a point from it that it was taking like 10 years and it took you seven. Like it's common for it to take a decade to get a diagnosis. That's ridiculous. And then Etienne, you were talking about something about maybe a gene therapy, and in that article that you shared, they were also saying that like, it's not attributable to a gene, but actually like these multi-genetic factors. But there could be maybe more that could be done with a biomarker testing and you could yes. And then you could actually kind of cross reference these things again, back to like this idea of like holistic stuff and then it's probably an inflammatory disorder. And as someone who, I have an autoimmune disease, and so I'm always like obsessed with things that cause inflammation and I'm just wondering if an anti-inflammatory protocol, like around diets and things like that can help even stave these things off before they even get that bad.
[00:24:06] Jane: Combined with doctors who listen combined with hormone therapy and all of these different things. You could throw a lot at this. It shouldn't have to be like, oh, now you're bleeding from your ass. Now we'll
[00:24:18] Martha: Yeah.
[00:24:19] Jane: about something serious.
[00:24:20] Etienne: it's serious.
[00:24:21] Martha: Now it's serious. And I took a picture of it to show the doctor. 'cause I was like, I want you to see that this is what is coming out of my body.
[00:24:28] Etienne: Well, when you talked about the blood post intercourse, I was like, can you imagine taking a picture of that?
[00:24:34] Martha: I should have
[00:24:34] Etienne: So you could show your doctor
[00:24:35] Martha: should have
[00:24:36] Etienne: this is what it looks like after I have sex. Do you want this to happen to you?
[00:24:38] Martha: Yeah. What if this happened to you, woman?
[00:24:40] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:24:41] Martha: At least it was with my boyfriend. What if it was you know, one night, a one night or someone for the first time
[00:24:47] Etienne: like, are you alive?
[00:24:48] Martha: I know what is wrong with like gross. Yeah.
[00:24:52] Etienne: Oh my god.
[00:24:52] Martha: That was traumatic. And it's just scary to have that much blood come out when you're not on your period, when you don't know why that would even happen
[00:24:59] Etienne: and you couldn't feel it.
[00:24:59] Martha: And I didn't know. I had no idea. That's crazy. Yeah. It just felt like normal,
[00:25:03] Heidi: That makes me wonder, when you're talking about it felt like you had ice pick going up your butt hole. I had similar, I would have such painful poops around my period, and it did, it felt like, I don't know, razor blades coming out on butt. Like, it just Freddy Krueger was trying to make his yeah, it was so painful. I would just cry.
[00:25:25] Jane: Before your surgeries, before they remove the endometrial tissue.
[00:25:31] Heidi: It was before and after actually, so I don't know. Yeah. It makes me wonder, like, oh, I wonder if there was, 'cause I would have, yeah. For the first couple days of my period, it would just be weird either constipation or diarrhea and just everything was evacuation. Like, yeah.
[00:25:52] Martha: That's kind of how I felt too. yeah.
[00:25:54] Heidi: Crazy.
[00:25:55] Etienne: I don't think I've ever had endometriosis ever. At least that I'm aware of. But I definitely, probably the first five years of having a periods, I would have massive diarrhea the first like day or two.
[00:26:05] Martha: Yeah.
[00:26:06] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:26:06] Martha: It's, I think it's from the prostaglandins that your body releases. I read about it, obviously.
[00:26:12] Etienne: Okay.
[00:26:13] Martha: Sometimes while I was sitting in the
[00:26:14] Etienne: damn pull out the prostaglandins
[00:26:15] Martha: sometimes while I was sitting in the bathroom for two hours, my husband's like, are you okay? Just go away. I had my special upstairs bathroom, I would go like live in for, but yeah, which is similar to what's released during pregnancy, it has something to do with all of that. And it's also like an inflammatory, I don't know what the word is, but like, it's not a hormone, but you know, some kind of inflammatory
[00:26:39] Etienne: like a response.
[00:26:40] Martha: Response that your body creates and that causes GI symptoms as well. So sometimes you can maybe not have endometriosis but still have bad GI symptoms during your period.
[00:26:51] Heidi: Hmm. Makes
[00:26:52] Martha: if it gets to the
[00:26:53] Jane: so it's good to know what's normal.
[00:26:55] Martha: you say?
[00:26:55] Jane: It's good to know like what, get a baseline. And that's why it's like good when women can talk to each other about these things and about their experiences to be like, okay, that happens to me too. Maybe that's normal. Maybe we can, and then normalize talking to the doctor about that, and then having a doctor again listen to you. So it's why it's very important that you were so vulnerable and shared, like details that were really personal and
[00:27:16] Martha: details.
[00:27:17] Etienne: Yeah, you did. I mean I just can't imagine how much pain that must have been to have all of that endometrial tissue everywhere inside of you. All in your abdominal organs and even on your diaphragm and having to have part of your colon removed and your ureter squeezed off and like, my God, it's insane
[00:27:35] Martha: A lot. Yeah. I just wish people knew that endometriosis isn't like period cramps. 'Cause that's what people think about. Oh, endometriosis is just extreme period cramps or something. But it's so much more because it can kill you. I could have ended up, if I just continued on the path I was on and didn't get that MRI I could have had a bowel obstruction and died. I could have,
[00:27:59] Etienne: yeah, you can die from a bowel obstruction. I don't think people realize like,
[00:28:01] Martha: yeah, and I'm sure that's happened to women before, which is horrible.
[00:28:05] Etienne: Yeah, probably for sure. We were talking, we were texting, before she came on a couple days ago.
[00:28:10] Martha: Oh yeah.
[00:28:11] Etienne: About how many times we would be dead if it was the 18 hundreds. Yeah, I would've been dead twice.
[00:28:17] Martha: Oh, I would've, yeah, you would. You've been through a lot too though.
[00:28:20] Etienne: But yeah, you would've been that for sure, like in the worst time
[00:28:24] Martha: or I would've been one of the hysterical women.
[00:28:26] Heidi: Oh, that they cut away
[00:28:28] Martha: that. I would've been in a home with a lobotomy.
[00:28:30] Etienne: yeah. I was gonna say they would've lobotimzed until you died from the endometriosis
[00:28:34] Martha: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:28:36] Etienne: You're like, she
[00:28:37] Jane: Locked up in an attic.
[00:28:38] Etienne: belly's getting really hard. Yeah. Now she's dead. I dunno.
[00:28:41] Martha: She's just dead. I dunno.
[00:28:43] Etienne: Alright. She's dead. Let's just take her away.
[00:28:45] Martha: Oh, and then the other aspect of it that people don't talk about or think about, or maybe some people do, but every single time I would get my period, I would sometimes gain 15 pounds.
[00:28:55] Etienne: What?
[00:28:55] Martha: Yes,
[00:28:56] Etienne: 15 pounds.
[00:28:57] Martha: Because I was bleeding from all of those implants inside my body.
[00:29:02] Etienne: Oh my God, you're bleeding. Every endometrial tissue is bleeding inside.
[00:29:05] Martha: And nobody would listen to me about that either. You know? I'd be like, is
[00:29:08] Etienne: that a thing wait.
[00:29:09] Jane: That was making you gain.
[00:29:11] Heidi: cause it's bleeding inside, so,
[00:29:14] Etienne: so, she's like internally bleeding. Yeah.
[00:29:15] Martha: So during my period, I would gain up to 15 pounds. Because I was bleeding internally. Because every time you get your period, all of those implants, they are, wait, we never really said what endometriosis is.
[00:29:27] Etienne: No.
[00:29:27] Martha: Endometriosis is basically when the tissue that should be inside of your uterus, that your body sheds every month during your regular period backs out through your fallopian tubes and attaches to other parts of your body where it shouldn't be. So it is signaled by your hormones every month when you get your period to bleed so it bleeds while you're also on your period.
[00:29:50] Etienne: That's insanity. I did not even think about that.
[00:29:52] Martha: Yes. So, I would not be able to fit it into any of my clothes. My stomach would be huge. I felt like I couldn't breathe.
[00:30:01] Etienne: so would all that
[00:30:02] Jane: Because you're bleeding from your
[00:30:03] Etienne: So would blood eventually just be reabsorbed somehow?
[00:30:06] Martha: Mm-hmm. That's just reabsorbed.
[00:30:07] Etienne: That's insane.
[00:30:08] Martha: So then I would feel better, I would feel okay for probably four days out of every month.
[00:30:12] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:30:14] Martha: During that time,
[00:30:15] Etienne: four days.
[00:30:16] Martha: Yeah.
[00:30:17] Jane: How long was your period lasting?
[00:30:19] Martha: It would last seven days, but I would go through probably a super tampon and a pad every hour for those seven days.
[00:30:29] Etienne: That is a lot.
[00:30:30] Martha: And it was so,
[00:30:32] Etienne: that is so much blood.
[00:30:33] Martha: Yeah. I, like I, said, I mean
[00:30:34] Etienne: that's why your hemoglobin seven.
[00:30:36] Martha: That's why my hemoglobin was seven.
[00:30:37] Heidi: Yeah. Your iron was zero. Oh my
[00:30:39] Martha: It was, yeah. Basically
[00:30:41] Heidi: you're basically bleeding to death for
[00:30:43] Etienne: yeah.
[00:30:43] Martha: I was,
[00:30:44] Etienne: yeah. Every month you're bleeding death.
[00:30:45] Martha: Yeah. So that's another thing people don't think about is just that you're having a period inside your whole body.
[00:30:51] Etienne: Wow.
[00:30:52] Martha: And doctors don't care or listen to you when you say like, I get bloated, I get really bloated. You know? They're like, yeah, it's just normal.
[00:30:59] Etienne: 10% of the women childbearing age
[00:31:01] Martha: Yeah.
[00:31:01] Etienne: Are having endometriosis.
[00:31:03] Martha: Yeah.
[00:31:03] Etienne: 10% and they have to wait an average of 10 years and seven doctors.
[00:31:07] Martha: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:07] Etienne: Is that, yeah.
[00:31:08] Martha: And a lot of times multiple laparoscopies before they actually find, that's another really important point. If you do choose to have a laparoscopy for endometriosis, it's very important to find someone who specializes in gynecological surgeries or endometriosis.
[00:31:26] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:26] Martha: A lot of gynecologists do the laparoscopies. But, if they don't specialize in it, then most of the time they don't feel comfortable digging around in your organs to see where it is, you know?
[00:31:37] Etienne: Yeah. I don't think you should feel comfortable about them digging around your organs
[00:31:40] Martha: Right? No, you shouldn't. So I would highly recommend asking for a gynecological surgeon, someone who specializes in that. Some of them, it's scary because you might have to go to like an oncology gynecologist, but that's what they do. They specialize in removing cancer and tumors, so they're good with removing endometriosis from weird areas.
[00:32:04] Etienne: Oh, okay.
[00:32:04] Martha: So the surgeon that finally did do my surgery was an expert in that area. And, he was great. He really was a wonderful surgeon. He listened to me, he made me feel very comfortable because he's done so many of these surgeries, and he's seen it all. And he really talked me through it. Drew pictures explained what was happening. Oh my gosh. He was mortified when my vaginal cuff ruptured. He was like, you are only the fourth patient. And this guy was probably like 70. He's like, you're only the fourth person I've ever seen this happen to. And it usually happens years post hysterectomy to people who
[00:32:41] Etienne: not three months, was it three months?
[00:32:43] Martha: Yeah. It was like, well, maybe like four months or something. Yeah. He felt really bad. Not that it's his fault.
[00:32:49] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:32:49] Martha: But I do wonder though, if I hadn't had the constipation, hadn't had the additional surgeries, maybe had gotten that colostomy so that my bowels could heal and rest. I would not have experienced that vaginal cuff rupture. I think it just didn't the pressure heal?
[00:33:05] Etienne: Maybe because you had to keep doing the pressure To try to poop. To try to pee.
[00:33:08] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:33:08] Martha: And they tell you not to strain.
[00:33:09] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:33:10] Martha: But how can you not strain when you haven't pooped for 14 days? I don't know what they want from me.
[00:33:16] Jane: Make it make sense. Yeah.
[00:33:18] Martha: But I am very grateful for the doctors that I did end up finding. The GI surgeon that I went to also specializes in endometriosis. So he regularly does bowel resections or removes endometriosis from people's colons. Cause sometimes they don't have to take, the endometriosis was actually at that point growing through my colon wall. So it was
[00:33:38] Etienne: so through the wall, so it was actually internal
[00:33:40] Martha: in my colon.
[00:33:41] Etienne: Wow.
[00:33:42] Martha: yeah, it wasn't
[00:33:43] Jane: This is why we're pooping blood. Yeah.
[00:33:45] Martha: It wasn't just like on the outside. Okay. It had grown through.
[00:33:50] Etienne: Wow.
[00:33:50] Martha: But that surgeon specializes in that. So
[00:33:53] Etienne: Would you be okay if we had his name attached to the podcast?
[00:33:56] Martha: Sure. The GI doctor is Dr., I think his first name, Thomas Koran. And then the gynecological surgeon was Christian Thomae.
[00:34:05] Etienne: We'll put their names on the
[00:34:06] Martha: Yeah. And they were great. And honestly, the gynecologist that finally got me that MRI and everything is Dr. Rachel Cowherd. Cow herd, like herding some cows.
[00:34:15] Etienne: Okay. That's how you spell it.
[00:34:17] Martha: Yeah. And she's amazing. She's an angel. I'm so thankful for her. She made me feel like I mattered. She made me feel like women's health matters. And it's not all about having babies and delivering babies. Like it's okay if you're a woman that doesn't have kids. It's okay if you can't have kids. Your health still matters.
[00:34:38] Etienne: You're still worthy, still worthy person.
[00:34:40] Martha: You're still worthy.
[00:34:41] Jane: Your uterus
[00:34:42] Martha: My uterus still matters.
[00:34:44] Etienne: Healthy. Your uterus is so important.
[00:34:45] Martha: Exactly. And another thing I had was also, which is becoming a lot more mainstream. I think people are becoming a lot more aware of this.
[00:34:57] Martha: It's called adenomyosis and it's basically you get those implants, inside your uterus. So your uterus just thickens and thickens and thickens over time. So my uterus was huge on top of all of this and was very thick.
[00:35:07] Etienne: That's insane.
[00:35:08] Martha: Which also leads to those like really heavy periods and all the bleeding and pain and stuff. So I'm glad it's gone. Goodbye. I Don't know, actually. I'm kind of sad. It's sad to think about your body parts just being thrown away even if they caused you pain.
[00:35:25] Etienne: Actually, all of the surgeries that I've had, I wanted like, can I have that?
[00:35:28] Martha: I know.
[00:35:28] Etienne: Can I just take it with me?
[00:35:29] Martha: I asked for my ovary and they were like, no, you can't have that. Which I actually, I've had like a million jobs. I used to be a pathological specimen grocer, which was my favorite job of all time
[00:35:41] Etienne: a grocer
[00:35:42] Martha: So I would get,
[00:35:42] Etienne: Wait, what does that mean?
[00:35:43] Martha: I would get the body parts that they removed from people during surgeries and I would cut them into little tiny pieces so that they could be put on slides for the pathologist to look at.
[00:35:53] Etienne: Oh.
[00:35:53] Martha: So I know that's where my ovary went. And then so
[00:35:56] Etienne: it went into tiny little slides.
[00:35:57] Martha: It went into tiny.
[00:35:58] Etienne: Just look at it.
[00:35:59] Martha: Yeah.
[00:35:59] Etienne: Make sure you don't
[00:36:00] Martha: Even though my right ovary, when they finally took it out, it doesn't even say it was an ovary anymore. It literally says three centimeter endometriosis implant. Like the ovary was gone.
[00:36:11] Etienne: Wow.
[00:36:12] Martha: So after your hysterectomy. Yes. If you leave your ovaries in and they continue to make hormones and you have any little piece of endometriosis left anywhere you can continue to develop new implants. So it's
[00:36:26] Etienne: Maybe that's what's happening to your mom, Jane
[00:36:28] Martha: Could be.
[00:36:29] Jane: Yup.
[00:36:30] Martha: Because if you, yeah, if you have your ovaries still, you'll continue to grow endometriosis, unfortunately. So that's that risk. Do you wanna go into instant menopause, but be sure that you're not gonna have any more endometriosis? Or do you want to leave your ovary and risk continuing to have new implants over time?
[00:36:50] Etienne: Wait, here's another question then. So if there was any endometrial tissue left in your body that they did not get out, but then you go on hormone replacement therapy
[00:36:58] Martha: Yes. It can
[00:36:59] Etienne: still, you can still keep growing.
[00:37:00] Martha: Yeah.
[00:37:00] Etienne: Okay.
[00:37:01] Martha: So, I mean, who knows what'll happen in the future, but I'm okay right now.
[00:37:04] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:37:06] Martha: I know
[00:37:08] Etienne: You deserve, deserve none of that feel. I hope they got every single, I mean, 10 hours. Yeah. They had enough time to get all of it out. I hope
[00:37:14] Martha: They did. I feel like they did a really thorough job. I read my entire surgical notes.
[00:37:19] Etienne: Wow. That had to be ugly.
[00:37:20] Martha: They put a stapler in my butt hole. They don't tell you that part.
[00:37:24] Etienne: A staple
[00:37:25] Martha: A stapler.
[00:37:27] Etienne: They had a stapler in your butt hole.
[00:37:28] Martha: Yeah.
[00:37:29] Etienne: To put a staple in there somewhere
[00:37:30] Martha: To close off my colon, I guess.
[00:37:32] Etienne: Wow.
[00:37:32] Martha: To staple my colon back together because, you know, they take out the part that's bad and then they reconnect the healthy pieces.
[00:37:39] Etienne: Okay. And they use the stapler to reconnect the pieces?
[00:37:41] Martha: I guess.
[00:37:42] Etienne: But then, I'm sorry, is it still in there? Like No.
[00:37:46] Martha: Yeah. I think it's
[00:37:47] Etienne: the staple.
[00:37:48] Martha: Yeah. I'll forever have a stapled colon.
[00:37:51] Etienne: Wow. Does that mean you beep when you go to the, through the x-ray machine?
[00:37:55] Jane: The airport. I was thinking the same thing.
[00:37:58] Martha: I was terrified after I got my bladder stimulator thing, 'cause it's like in my butt I can feel it.
[00:38:03] Etienne: Oh wow.
[00:38:04] Martha: And I was so afraid 'cause I fly a lot, to go through the x-ray thing because I was like, I'm gonna set this off every time. It doesn't, it's fine.
[00:38:13] Jane: I was gonna say, if you were gonna set it off, they give you a certificate to bring with you to travel. 'Cause my uncle has a metal plate in his head and he has a certificate that he has to travel with. Yeah. Random fun fact
[00:38:23] Etienne: there's a
[00:38:24] Martha: Yeah, that is a great fact, I have a little iPhone that controls it, but I don't have a certificate.
[00:38:32] Heidi: Huh I wanna give a shout out to my surgeon as well, he was life changing as well. Um, Dr. Valle in Bonita Springs, Florida. He is a saint.
[00:38:44] Martha: Nice. He sounds like it.
[00:38:46] Etienne: We'll definitely add him to the show notes. If people live in that
[00:38:49] Martha: Yeah, he helped a lot of women with these Mullerian anomalies get the surgeries. 'Cause we were having trouble getting pregnant and after that surgery I did get pregnant. I mean, I ended up miscarrying, but after years and years and years of trying, I did get pregnant. So yeah, he's helped a lot of women with these different issues and eventually get pregnant and have children. So, but yeah, he was amazing when you were talking about how your surgeon drew pictures for you and totally explained everything. That's how he was too. Completely put me at ease and yeah, for having a crazy surgery, it was an amazing experience.
[00:39:28] Etienne: Wow. Yeah.
[00:39:28] Martha: That's wonderful.
[00:39:30] Etienne: I feel like people like that, like if there's a heaven, they're just like, they're shooting up to it when they die.
[00:39:34] Martha: Exactly.
[00:39:35] Etienne: They're getting like shot up like as fast as it
[00:39:38] Martha: They'll relive all of the moments
[00:39:40] Etienne: Fast pass
[00:39:41] Martha: Yeah.
[00:39:42] Heidi: Fast pass into heaven. They don't wait in line at all. Yeah.
[00:39:48] Martha: I want one
[00:39:49] Etienne: You can get after all that years of pain. You deserve one too.
[00:39:52] Martha: Thank you.
[00:39:53] Jane: I am pretty sure Martha's got
[00:39:55] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:39:55] Jane: pass, so we're gonna
[00:39:56] Etienne: Well, plus, I mean, you were talking about how testy you've been at times, the person you were describing from the pain that you were having and like how you didn't wanna be this person that you didn't recognize that you couldn't stop yourself.
[00:40:08] Martha: Yeah.
[00:40:08] Etienne: I never saw that. I only saw you as being an empathetic
[00:40:12] Martha: thank you
[00:40:12] Etienne: nurse who cares about her patients, who does everything that she's supposed to, and more like, I've never seen you in a bad way ever. So
[00:40:20] Martha: I really, hid it. Around a lot of people.
[00:40:23] Etienne: You must have, I dunno how you did that.
[00:40:25] Martha: You can talk to my mother, my husband, my sibling, they saw it, some of my best friends.
[00:40:32] Etienne: It also taken a lot of energy to hide all of that.
[00:40:34] Martha: It did
[00:40:35] Etienne: at work.
[00:40:36] Martha: It did. I mean it did it yeah. Constantly just keeping myself in check and yeah, I would just bottle it all up and it would come out at the most inappropriate times. Like one time this poor man at Victoria's Secret would not let me return this broken bra.
[00:40:50] Etienne: Oh no.
[00:40:51] Martha: I let him have it. My friend went back later and apologized to him, but it was just like all of that pain and people not taking me seriously. I don't know. And probably all the inflammation in my body. I'm sure that really has a negative impact on how your brain processes things.
[00:41:08] Heidi: Goes to show you, if you see a Karen. Maybe she's got some endo going on
[00:41:14] Etienne: might be the 10%
[00:41:16] Martha: What, what? My thing messed up. What'd you say?
[00:41:18] Etienne: Oh, Karen.
[00:41:20] Martha: Oh,
[00:41:21] Etienne: You see a Karen out in the world being she might be having
[00:41:25] Martha: she might have the endometriosis
[00:41:27] Heidi: she's just having one of those days where
[00:41:30] Martha: Yes.
[00:41:31] Heidi: It's all coming out.
[00:41:33] Martha: It's just, she bottled it all up in, oh, I was a total Karen on the, it was before Karen was a thing, but I was one of the original Karens when I could not return that damn bra.
[00:41:45] Etienne: Did he let you
[00:41:45] Heidi: That poor guy, he was like
[00:41:47] Martha: He let my friend return it when she went to apologize.
[00:41:51] Etienne: Oh my God. Really?
[00:41:52] Martha: Yeah.
[00:41:53] Etienne: Oh.
[00:41:54] Martha: But yeah, that was not a proud moment of mine. In fact, I feel terrible about it still. But, but that's something I also just try to think about all the time is when you do see somebody like, that's just so angry or somebody does something to piss you off, like you really don't know what they're going through.
[00:42:12] Etienne: No, don't.
[00:42:13] Martha: They could be having like the worst day ever, they could be driving their car to see their kid die in the hospital.
[00:42:20] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:20] Martha: You don't know, you know? And so I always try to, I don't know, do you know who David Foster Wallace, that author?
[00:42:26] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:26] Martha: Is, you know.
[00:42:27] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:42:27] Martha: Have you ever read that speech that he gave? It was like a commencement speech, but it's all about that. It's all about thinking about what other people are going through and like, don't flip that person off. That just cut you off because you don't know where they're going. And now I really try to think about that a lot more. I mean, I think that my hormones being balanced probably help with that, but it's, yeah, it's interesting. Hormones really impact a lot.
[00:42:57] Etienne: They do.
[00:42:58] Martha: Yeah.
[00:42:58] Etienne: They really do.
[00:42:59] Martha: Yeah. So,
[00:43:00] Heidi: You think that if,
[00:43:01] Jane: I think it's a good overall
[00:43:02] Heidi: didn't want so many Karens out in the wild, they would, they would be pushing the hormones on, like here, free for everybody
[00:43:11] Martha: Maybe we need,
[00:43:11] Etienne: They might like just put it in our tea.
[00:43:13] Martha: They don't know though. We need to let them
[00:43:15] Jane: They dunno,
[00:43:16] Martha: Yeah.
[00:43:16] Etienne: Right.
[00:43:17] Martha: Stop the karen. We can put billboards up.
[00:43:19] Etienne: Stop the Karen.
[00:43:20] Jane: Oh my God, stop the Karens. That would
[00:43:22] Etienne: HRT. Yeah.
[00:43:24] Jane: campaign.
[00:43:24] Etienne: Stop the Karens and support HRT.
[00:43:26] Martha: I like that. Can we start our own hormone replacement business? Because we can't give that to someone. Like that's our, that's our motto.
[00:43:35] Etienne: But it could be a campaign to start, like if we start a group to try to make it
[00:43:38] Martha: Yeah.
[00:43:39] Etienne: Something that,
[00:43:39] Martha: to make it where insurance covers it's more accessible.
[00:43:42] Etienne: They shouldn't also say, oh, we will only cover the pills. They should cover whatever wanna happen.
[00:43:46] Martha: They should recover. Whatever works best for that person.
[00:43:49] Heidi: Yeah,
[00:43:49] Martha: Yeah. Yeah. Because yeah, all drugs do not work the same in all people.
[00:43:54] Etienne: Yeah, like Nuvaring worked for me, but not the oral contraceptives. Like to stop my breakthrough bleeding that I had for my entire life.
[00:44:02] Martha: Yeah.
[00:44:02] Etienne: So, yeah.
[00:44:03] Martha: Yeah.
[00:44:04] Etienne: They're like, Nope, you gotta try pills again. I'm like, I've tried pills before. I'm not going backwards. Like,
[00:44:09] Martha: Yeah, exactly.
[00:44:11] Etienne: These people
[00:44:12] Martha: It's ridiculous.
[00:44:13] Jane: I've been told many times like, something's not gonna be covered by insurance. And then the thing that works for me isn't so I just would have to pay out of pocket for it. And I'm like, who are you to tell me that this is better for me. I'm like, I know that that's not going to work. I've done it before and it sucks. So, but yeah, I do like the idea very much of like, stop the Karen support HRT because like awareness is, we said it before, it is like, if more people are aware of this, then yeah, they would advocate more for things to be covered, for things to be explored, for research to be funded, for answers to be had for
[00:44:49] Martha: Yeah. That's a really good point too, that you made earlier about thinking about what if that was your daughter? What if that was your sister?
[00:44:56] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:44:57] Heidi: Wife? yeah, your daughter. yeah, Your mother. Mm-hmm.
[00:45:01] Etienne: Man.
[00:45:02] Martha: But I also wish that men just could feel the pain
[00:45:05] Etienne: Just for like five minutes. Just for five minutes.
[00:45:07] Martha: They would
[00:45:08] Heidi: have those, they have that, that labor simulator. You think that
[00:45:13] Etienne: They have a labor simulator men?
[00:45:15] Martha: Oh. Actually, they have a period cramps simulator for men too.
[00:45:18] Etienne: What?
[00:45:19] Martha: I forgot. I actually saw a video
[00:45:21] Heidi: Yeah. They have contraction simulator where they put like the pain thing around their stomach and make them You haven't seen the videos? Oh my
[00:45:29] Etienne: No, now I have to see the video.
[00:45:30] Martha: You have to watch them. Yeah.
[00:45:32] Etienne: Oh my God. Their faces just be like,
[00:45:35] Heidi: like, yeah.
[00:45:36] Martha: Yeah.
[00:45:37] Heidi: And and they can't handle it for more than a couple minutes, and women like, oh, we do this
[00:45:42] Martha: like a low. They'll start at like a low intensity and like slowly crank it up.
[00:45:47] Etienne: Oh god.
[00:45:47] Jane: That's my next YouTube rabbit hole.
[00:45:50] Etienne: I can see Jane. It looks like she's already typing in the search bar.
[00:45:53] Martha: Yes. Go down the, and you know they need to do it to other women who act like periods are no big deal because they exist too.
[00:46:00] Etienne: Women who've never had feminine pain.
[00:46:02] Martha: Exactly. And they also act like you're crazy.
[00:46:06] Etienne: So I mean they should have a simulator for what you experienced with all the pain that you had throughout your entire body
[00:46:11] Martha: Yes.
[00:46:12] Heidi: Yeah. Put a rod up your butt, right up your vagina. Make it, feel like Freddie Krueger's trying to come out, you know, Yeah.
[00:46:20] Etienne: Gain 15 pounds.
[00:46:21] Martha: Gain 15 pounds. Yeah.
[00:46:23] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:46:24] Etienne: I mean, just imagine that right there. And you're so little's 10 15 pounds isn't
[00:46:28] Martha: It's so uncomfortable. It's just, yeah. No matter how big or small you are, like 15 extra pounds does not feel good and not being able to fit into your clothing and then still having to go to work and still having to function normally when you just,
[00:46:45] Etienne: I mean, it sounds like you should have been, while this was all happening to you, going on some kind of disability.
[00:46:50] Martha: Oh, I tried. I tried to get FMLA and they said no
[00:46:53] Etienne: Wait, this, wait people get FML or they get also like that special compensation for having chronic migraines.
[00:46:59] Martha: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:59] Etienne: You couldn't get it for your chronic pain.
[00:47:01] Martha: They didn't give it to me.
[00:47:01] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:47:03] Martha: Yeah. Because I did not want to do that. I felt like it made me weak or made me look like one of those people that's abusing FMLA, you know? But then when I finally did have to try, because it did get to the point towards like very close to when I had my hysterectomy where I really was calling out of work. I mean, I remember one day I was on the toilet for like an hour and I had to call my husband on my cell phone and be like, I hoard pain medicine now because of all of this.
[00:47:29] Martha: So anytime I have like a crown put on or something, I'd be like, gotta save all the pain meds for when I'm on my period, because they won't give you anything when you're on your period. You know, I feel like they should give you stronger pain medicine sometimes if you have cramps like I did. I really do. But, I was like, you have to bring me an oxy to the bathroom right now because I can't, I'm in so much pain I can't move. Like, I, I was just sobbing hysterically because it felt like Freddie Krueger was trying to get out and someone was stabbing me repeatedly. And yeah, it just,
[00:47:59] Etienne: man
[00:48:00] Martha: That was one of the last really bad ones that I had. But, oh, and then the best part ever was how I started my period the day before my hysterectomy.
[00:48:10] Etienne: Oh no.
[00:48:11] Martha: So I had, and I was doing a bowel clean out 'cause I had to have that bowel resection.
[00:48:16] Etienne: Oh.
[00:48:16] Martha: So I couldn't take any pain medicine, I couldn't do anything.
[00:48:19] Etienne: There must have been blood coming outta you then 'cause if it was already through your colon.
[00:48:22] Martha: Oh. I was bleeding from every orifice of my body and I was in so much pain. I was like, of course I get my last period. Why? Like why
[00:48:33] Etienne: the day before
[00:48:33] Martha: the day. Yeah. I went in and I was like, I'm on my period. Like, great.
[00:48:38] Etienne: Well at least that should help them find all of the places.
[00:48:41] Martha: Oh, actually that they said that. They said that.
[00:48:43] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:48:44] Martha: Yeah. They were like, well, it's good. They still made me take a pregnancy test. I was like,
[00:48:48] Etienne: Oh my Lord.
[00:48:49] Martha: I'm definitely not pregnant. But
[00:48:51] Etienne: But don't they just do that in before every surgery, just in case?
[00:48:53] Martha: Probably.
[00:48:54] Jane: They do.
[00:48:55] Martha: They do.
[00:48:55] Etienne: Yeah. I feel like every time you go through the ED and you're a woman, they give you a pregnancy test.
[00:48:59] Martha: They do. Yeah. They still try to give them to me. And I'm like, I can't. I have no ute. I have no uterus.
[00:49:05] Etienne: I have no ovaries, we're good.
[00:49:08] Martha: I believe how it kept going. cause I thought, okay, had the surgery, she's gonna be fine. No, it just going and going, oh my God, I just can't believe the nightmare that you went
[00:49:21] Martha: Yeah. People just couldn't believe. And even the doctors were like, I'm so sorry, this doesn't normally happen. I've never seen this. I don't know, like,
[00:49:29] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:49:30] Martha: Yeah. But
[00:49:31] Etienne: Yeah, no, I mean I really hope this makes a difference to I people who are listening, like,
[00:49:35] Martha: hope so too.
[00:49:35] Etienne: Or they hear friends start complaining about something, they can say, oh, we have to listen to this
[00:49:39] Martha: Yeah.
[00:49:40] Etienne: You're like
[00:49:40] Martha: Yeah.
[00:49:41] Etienne: You know, just so they can have an idea and know to go ask for the MRI you know?
[00:49:46] Martha: Right. Just please ask for the MRI and please don't be afraid to try some of the, don't be afraid to try Orilissa. 'Cause who knows, it really may work for you. Just 'cause I didn't wanna try. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't try it. You know, I don't wanna deter anyone from anything. But if you do have a lot of underlying mental health problems, please also think about how your hormones can impact that, because... yeah.
[00:50:10] Etienne: That was one of the main problems I was having when I started going through menopause. 'Cause I wasn't bleeding, so I couldn't go by that. But, the mood swings.
[00:50:18] Martha: Yeah
[00:50:18] Etienne: The mood swings were what really, I was like, I wanted to, and Jane talks about this, how she would look at her husband and you gotta tell her 'cause she hasn't, this is my favorite, favorite story.
[00:50:30] Jane: I love him deeply. All right. Anybody who knows me knows that I love him deeply, and my marriage is the most important thing to me in my life. But I would just look at him and just be like, oh my God I would feel so annoyed and I would have to get all the way in my head to having a fake funeral for him in my head to finally get to the point where I wasn't mad at, I was like, that's how far I had to go. Because I knew it was irrational how angry that I was at him about something just dumb. And I wasn't lashing out at him, but it's the crap in my head, he never listens to this, but the swirl in my head of just, I would just, ugh, like, why is he being like this? And he was probably doing something that was a little bit annoying, but not like, okay, I now have to think, okay, what would life be like without you?
[00:51:16] Jane: And then I would start crying, and I'd have to leave the room and be like, that would be so terrible. I'd be like giving, in my head, a eulogy from my husband, and then I'd be like, would suck. And so maybe it's okay that he very rarely pushes in his chair. Like he very rarely pushes his chair.
[00:51:33] Heidi: That's what sets her off.
[00:51:37] Heidi: Oh my God. That's our show you've been listening to The Women are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com and of course you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other.
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