The Women Are Plotting
Do you know how to use a rotary phone?
Worry about how much Aquanet you inhaled as a teen?
Wonder about the creative worlds of writers?
Believe belly laughs make the best ab workouts?
Seek answers to the mysteries of menopause?
Then welcome to The Women Are Plotting -- a new podcast that allows a peek into the unfiltered minds of three Gen X writers. Give us a listen. And if you like what you hear, tell your friends.
If you have a story or an idea you'd like to share, we'd love to hear from you! Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com
The Women Are Plotting
From Runner-Chaser Chaos To Real Love: How To Tell Twin Flames From Soulmates
What if the signs weren’t pointing to “the one,” but to the work? We pull apart the magnetic chaos of twin flames and the steady, grounded ease of soulmates, sharing real stories of closure, synchronicities, and the kind of love that doesn’t ask you to shrink. We discuss why runner-chaser dynamics feel addictive, how telepathy-like moments and “meant to be” coincidences can mask unhealed wounds, and the simple tells that cut through noise: equal effort, emotional availability, and laughter that lands in the same place for both of you.
Along the way, we share the metrics that matter. Humor as a shared language and nervous system regulator. Attention as love in practice, from small rituals to memory-rich gifts. Safety as a daily experience, not a promise. You’ll hear how one of us mistook an intense, supernatural-feeling bond for fate—and found freedom in closure. You’ll also hear a love story that still sparkles decades later, proof that romance can be tender and intentional without the volatility. The big insight: healthy partnership makes you more you and inspires growth without drama.
We also zoom out to the cultural scripts that train us to chase intensity: princess narratives, quick fixes, and the myth that pain equals depth. Then we zoom back in to practical advice you can use today—treat intrusive thoughts of an ex as an inner alarm, not a cosmic tug; set non-negotiables around humor, reciprocity, and curiosity; and hold out for a relationship that feels like home. If you’ve ever wondered whether your “twin flame” is a teacher and your soulmate is still ahead, this conversation gives language, clarity, and a gentler way forward.
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Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.
[00:00:00] Jane: So I'm just saying folks out there, if you're holding out, just don't settle. Don't settle. 'Cause I've just seen people settle and it eats their soul, even from just the pretending to be happy. And then they sometimes can trick themselves into believing it. For a short period of
[00:00:17] Etienne: I can't be forever though. You can't trick yourself forever or you'll go insane. I assume you would go insane to have that level of denial on a daily
[00:00:25] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:00:25] Jane: So yeah, he was not her soulmate. And I do think that one of the requirements for a soulmate is that you do have to have some things in common that you think are funny. If you cannot laugh at some stuff together, you're not gonna make it.
[00:00:38] Etienne: Welcome listeners. This is The Women Are Plotting. I'm Etienne Rose Olivier and I'm here with my friends and co-hosts, Heidi Willis and Jane Gari.
[00:00:53] Etienne: On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about twin flames and soulmates.
[00:01:01] Etienne: And the fun fact that I found for today, there was a survey done, they asked 2,111 Americans, do you believe in soulmates? And I wanted Heidi to be the one to guess which state in the United States believes the most in soulmates?
[00:01:18] Heidi: Oh wow. Okay. I'm trying to think of who is the woowoo estate. Probably California.
[00:01:26] Etienne: No. Here, I'll give you, I'll give you a hint. It's two states away from where I am.
[00:01:31] Heidi: Oh, Florida.
[00:01:33] Etienne: No, I know. No
[00:01:38] Heidi: I have no idea. I have no idea.
[00:01:39] Etienne: I get, yeah. Florida. No, you've lived there. Heidi.
[00:01:45] Jane: Oh
[00:01:46] Heidi: Oh, Texas.
[00:01:47] Etienne: Alabama.
[00:01:49] Heidi: Maryland. Oh, Alabama.
[00:01:52] Etienne: Alabama. I'm right, right. You lived in Alabama for a while
[00:01:55] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:01:56] Etienne: Okay. 80% of the people from Alabama believed in so soulmates. That's not everybody in Alabama though. Either way. Those are the people that responded to the survey that happened to live in Alabama, and the least the ones who believe the least.
[00:02:10] Etienne: You're not gonna believe this. 38% of the people who are from Utah believe in soulmates. 38. It was by far the lowest. Like there literally was like most, like the lowest before that was
[00:02:24] Heidi: I wonder
[00:02:25] Etienne: like in that 38 that Utah's like, no, don't believe
[00:02:28] Jane: some polygamy, holdover beliefs are like we, you can have 15 sister wives.
[00:02:33] Etienne: Maybe they're just like, you know what, I have no choice. I get picked to be one of the wives and I have no choice. Like what? You know, don't worry about soulmates. Don't exist. We're fine.
[00:02:43] Heidi: I wonder if it's a religion thing too. Like
[00:02:46] Jane: I mean, for the record, this, that's not happening in Utah anymore.
[00:02:49] Etienne: Oh, sorry. Yes. No, no.
[00:02:50] Heidi: Yeah, yeah. Technically,
[00:02:54] Etienne: Jane's eyes
[00:02:55] Heidi: legally, it's not.
[00:02:56] Etienne: eyes just got really, oh my gosh. Jane, what's your fun and or interesting fact for today?
[00:03:07] Jane: Pretty sure we looked at the
[00:03:09] Etienne: Oh.
[00:03:09] Jane: That's what I'm laughing at. So, yeah, but I didn't look at the, is it the u gov poll that was done in 2021? Is this
[00:03:17] Etienne: not seeing that where it's, yeah, it's, I,
[00:03:22] Jane: I don't, I don't have the
[00:03:24] Etienne: 22,111. Yeah. That's so weird. Methodology.
[00:03:28] Jane: don't have like the breakdown of by states. So maybe we are looking at different polls, but this one was from 2021. And so actually this, these are two different surveys because this was
[00:03:43] Etienne: Oh, this is from 2023. This was between March and March 9th, 2023.
[00:03:48] Jane: Okay, this is a little bit older and there were 15,000 US adults interviewed for
[00:03:53] Etienne: Oh. Way more than mine. Mine's only like two.
[00:03:55] Jane: It's a lot.
[00:04:05] Jane: And so there were 60% of Americans then, according to this poll, then believe in soulmates and more women. They broke it down by gender though that, well, by biological sex, that 64% of women and then 55% of men respectively believe in soulmates.
[00:04:14] Jane: I still think though, that shows that, you know, more than half of people are pretty romantically inclined. You know what I mean? Like, to be like, there's, there's somebody out there for me. It's
[00:04:26] Etienne: hope.
[00:04:27] Jane: you know? Yeah, exactly. Like they're holding out for this idea, there is this one person who's there for me, however. You know, I was looking at a few articles that were talking about different kinds of soulmates and then there's romantic soulmates and then your friends. And, some people believe that there's more than one soulmate for you, you know? But this was specifically the idea of romantic soulmates and this poll, and I thought that that's a, that's a good percentage for that large of a
[00:04:56] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:56] Etienne: that is a good percentage.
[00:04:57] Jane: know, a cohort. So,
[00:04:59] Etienne: I've literally, I don't think I've ever met anybody who said they did not believe in soulmates. If that counts. Not that I go around asking everybody that I meet, but like, you know.
[00:05:08] Jane: I have people who are adamantly think that the idea is preposterous
[00:05:11] Etienne: Wow. Okay.
[00:05:12] Jane: and think that you could be happy with any number of people.
[00:05:15] Etienne: Were they men?
[00:05:16] Jane: you, um, um, men and women, but, but more men.
[00:05:22] Heidi: that goes into the logic of there are many soulmates, there are many people that are gonna resonate with you and are gonna be someone that's supportive and loving and the perfect partner for you. Like you can have many, ' cause people talked about losing their soulmate 'cause they died or something, and then finding their next one. And
[00:05:44] Etienne: Hmm.
[00:05:44] Heidi: So. Love can strike twice good, healthy love. Anyway. All right. My fun fact is way different.
[00:05:55] Etienne: Oh good.
[00:05:57] Heidi: So the most famous supposed twin flame couple out there is Megan Fox and Machine Gun Kelly and Machine Gun Kelly actually wrote a song, called Twin Flame or something, but yeah, they're no longer together though
[00:06:12] Etienne: Well wait from what I
[00:06:13] Heidi: but yeah,
[00:06:14] Etienne: Yeah. From Twin Flames.
[00:06:15] Heidi: be in separation.
[00:06:17] Etienne: Yeah. They might come back.
[00:06:19] Heidi: Yeah, they might come back later. I don't know.
[00:06:21] Etienne: Oh my
[00:06:22] Heidi: it sounds like they're not thinking they're twin flames anymore, but, yeah. And then, another couple that there's no way to know for sure, but Wallace Simpson and Edward VIII, the one who abdicated the throne, some people claim that there's twin flames, who knows?
[00:06:42] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:06:44] Heidi: The reason why we're talking about this, I requested the ladies that we talk about this because I have been on this journey, I guess, of growth and awakening and it's really a journey of self-discovery and remembering yourself and self-love and all that.
[00:07:04] Heidi: So before I left my ex, I discovered this twin flame phenomenon and I believed that my old high school boyfriend was my twin flame because so many things lined up. You know, we had these parallel lives going on. There was a ton of runner chaser garbage going on where he would break up with me and then come back and back and forth, back and forth, for a very long time into adult life.
[00:07:32] Heidi: So I found out he was moving back to Iowa same time as me, and so I just, I got in my head, I was like, yep. Because there was a lot of spooky things that happened with us too. There was a time where I was dating someone from his same school and we were on a back road making out, and this guy found my supposed twin flame found me.
[00:07:53] Heidi: Like we just, we had weird things happen like that. There's so many big events that happen in relation to him. And so I just, yeah, I got it in my mind that, yep, he's it. And then I met censored and we had a lot of the same things go on, too intense physical connection. There was runner chaser dynamics going on. He ghosted me, came back, ghosted me again. And so when I got some closure with the high school boyfriend, I got it in my mind that, okay, censored, must be it, because I was triggered into a dark night of the soul. And, it sent me on this journey of, really looking at my traumas and finally healing.
[00:08:37] Etienne: Mm.
[00:08:37] Heidi: I'm off the train now. It's been a rollercoaster ride for sure. I don't believe either man is my twin flame, but I am grateful for the journey nonetheless, because I've come so far in three years. As far as self-development, self growth, I feel like I'm a whole person where I was kind of ashamed of so many different parts of myself before, we're trying to hide or I shrunk myself so small that I wasn't really living anymore.
[00:09:07] Heidi: And so I feel like I'm blossoming and I have released a lot of my past, so many people, things from my past, including these men. I feel like my heart is really healed and full and ready for the right person, who will be like a soulmate and will be supportive and it'll be easier than these other connections.
[00:09:34] Heidi: So, yeah. So I guess I can go through what kind of makes up twin flames. So, when you first meet, it feels like you've been struck by lightning. Feels otherworldly. Another thing they talk about is they're a lot of times they're mirrors to you, showing the things you need to work on, like they trigger you, which I will say these particular men did trigger me.
[00:09:56] Heidi: It feels like you've known them before. That's very, very strong physical attraction. Sometimes love at first sight. There's telepathy that goes on . There's a magnetic pull. Oh, there's lots of signs and synchronicities. That was another thing that kept me on this rollercoaster ride is I would get signs and symbols all the time.
[00:10:15] Heidi: It was nuts for each, each guy, like it was nuts. So I do feel like, whether they were feeling any of this or not, I don't think they were. Especially censored. So I got some closure on that and he never loved me and did not think about me like he only reached out, I think because this most recent time when I got the closure, I only think he went through a bad breakup and I think he was trying to get good with his karma, and so that's why he reached out to me to apologize for the way he treated me and the way things ended. Just to clear his karmas slate, I guess.
[00:10:52] Heidi: So it wasn't really for me or anything like that. It was, I think, more for him. So I got all the information I needed to be like, yeah, he is not it at all, .
[00:11:03] Etienne: And I know you were raw from this last week. Specifically, do you still feel like it's definitely closed, like having this closure? It's, it has changed how you feel about the situation with him now? Still?
[00:11:15] Heidi: Oh yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I have closed that door. It's locked, it's shut. Because the messages I was getting was, I needed to leave everybody from the past behind before I step onto this next phase of life. And so that's kind of what's been happening naturally.
[00:11:34] Heidi: I've just been kind of releasing all these fantasies because I think with even the high school guy, censored, I had fantasies about him since. I mean, he was my first love. I can still remember meeting him, locking eyes with him. It was so intense, you know? There's several stories I could go into about him, but, yeah. Getting to talk to him last year. And figuring out. Okay. I think he was always reaching out to me over the years as a ego boost. Not really
[00:12:04] Etienne: Oh, that sounds so familiar.
[00:12:06] Heidi: Yeah, not, not really
[00:12:08] Jane: Yep.
[00:12:09] Etienne: That's
[00:12:09] Heidi: for anything else but a ego boost, I think. He even said ' cause I asked him, did you ever love me? And, he was like, yeah. But it was like a teenager love. So that's what he said. So I'm like, okay.
[00:12:22] Etienne: Damn teenager love. So what's the difference between twin flames and soulmates then?
[00:12:28] Heidi: So Twin Flames is super painful and they say that most times you don't have a reunion. Like they're just there to trigger you and trigger you into healing and it's volatile. But soulmates is more like, it feels like you're coming home and more supportive. I think of like Jane and her husband being soulmates, for sure.
[00:12:51] Jane: Yeah.
[00:12:52] Heidi: Yeah, I see that and that's what I want. I want that type of relationship. And the feeling I'm getting is because I've done all this hard work of healing myself, so I'm not bringing this garbage, this baggage into my next relationship. I've been going through all this dating stuff to, I don't know, it was like a training ground for the real thing. I feel like, so I get it right. I know how to approach it and not fuck it up because I think, if I had met the one after leaving my ex, I would've fucked it up. I know.
[00:13:27] Etienne: Well, yeah, you shouldn't go straight for the one after leaving a relationship like.
[00:13:31] Heidi: No, no. But I'm saying like, it took this long for me to get this healthy, I guess.
[00:13:37] Etienne: And how long has it been now? I know you said before, but I can't remember.
[00:13:40] Heidi: Oh
[00:13:40] Etienne: Since you and Chris separated. Yeah.
[00:13:42] Heidi: Yeah. Three years.
[00:13:44] Etienne: Oh, see that? Yeah.
[00:13:45] Heidi: It's been over three years. Yeah.
[00:13:46] Etienne: I felt the same way about two years after mine. So, yeah. That's interesting.
[00:13:51] Heidi: Oh, I
[00:13:52] Etienne: So when you say the one, so the one for you, is that soulmate that you're looking for or to claim or do you not care way?
[00:14:00] Heidi: The one that's right for me. I wanna find someone who wants to know me. That's something I never felt with censored Like, he never wanted to know me. I wanted to know him, but he didn't ever want to know me. So that's the first clue that I should have, you know, not the one.
[00:14:16] Heidi: But no, I want someone that wants to know me, that wants to support me, that I can support and will love me. Like I can love somebody. Is interested in what I'm interested in, we don't have to be completely alike, you know, they can have different interests than me, but be supportive and interested of the others' hobbies or interests.
[00:14:35] Heidi: I just wanna find that equal partner. Someone who's gonna treat me like an equal, and not look down on me or see me less than. And I felt like I've gone through a lot of guys who look down on me.
[00:14:48] Etienne: Oh God.
[00:14:49] Heidi: Yeah. I don't think I've ever really had equal love. It's always been kind of off balance in every relationship.
[00:14:57] Etienne: Well then you're definitely due. You, you're for that. Yeah.
[00:15:02] Heidi: I
[00:15:03] Jane: due and you've paid
[00:15:04] Etienne: Yes.
[00:15:04] Jane: dues.
[00:15:05] Heidi: Totally pay my dues, but, you know, I was always looking for that love and that validation outside of myself, and now I'm finding it within, and I know
[00:15:16] Etienne: perfect. Yeah.
[00:15:17] Heidi: That's the key, I'm so happy in my life right now that anybody that comes in now has gotta just add to it. I'm so discerning. If somebody's not aligned, I'm just like, no, I don't have the time.
[00:15:31] Etienne: And you deserve to have somebody that wants to know you and loves you for you, and is interested in what you do and what you think and what you say, you know, doesn't need you to take care of them.
[00:15:42] Heidi: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:45] Jane: Doesn't want you to pretend to be less than you are to
[00:15:48] Etienne: oh my God.
[00:15:49] Jane: you're past the point of like, how small can I make myself in service of your fragile ego? Like, you're over that and there's some women who, and men too. But I think proportionately and statistically, it's more women who are willing to live in the shadow of their partner because there's some programming there and you've now, you've untied all of those knots, you know, and you're not gonna be like, okay, I gotta seek out that guy, because then he completes me.
[00:16:18] Jane: You're like, Hey, I'm already complete over here. If you wanna hang out and let's like be even then greater than the sum of our parts, that's awesome. But I'm not going to make my flame burn any less brightly for you. And you had to literally go through the hurdles of that twin flame gauntlet, pun intended, I commend you for being honest about being really enamored of the fantasy of that, right
[00:16:44] Heidi: Yeah. Well, I think it's, it, you know, it goes along with the princess stories that we all grew up on. You know, like there's gonna be this knight who comes and saves you and you away and takes care of you. So it, it went right into, like, my inner child latched onto this concept big time. Like when I did some inner child work, it was wild. I did a meditation on inner child, and I went into her bedroom and she had posters of censored all over her. And I was like, what is happening? Why no,
[00:17:16] Etienne: wait. Who did you have posters.
[00:17:17] Heidi: my, that, the, my high school's sweetheart
[00:17:20] Etienne: Oh, that you didn't say his name, so I didn't know what his name was. Okay.
[00:17:23] Heidi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and it was funny, after getting over him and figuring out, okay, yeah, that's no, she had put censored posters everywhere. And so I'm just like, no, no, no, sweetheart. Like we're gonna save ourselves. We're not waiting for someone. So I had her redecorate the bedroom with Wonder Woman posters and Princess Leia and just all these kickass female heroes, you know.
[00:17:51] Etienne: Perfect.
[00:17:52] Heidi: My inner child and inner teenager was very fixated on this concept.
[00:17:58] Heidi: So, they've been the ones that have like latched on the most to not wanting to let, even now, like I had a conversation with my spiritual advisor 'cause she was the one that got me onto this concept. So I got over censored pretty, pretty good. Like I wasn't thinking about him.
[00:18:32] Heidi: And then he started popping into my mind and it felt like I was having telepathy with him and I was dreaming about him. It was driving me nuts. And my spiritual advisor's like, what is it? What is it triggering on yours? What is it showing you? And I was like, oh my gosh. That's right. He's like an early warning, spiritual system or canary in the coal mine. So anytime a thought of him popped into my mind, I was like, okay, what is this?
[00:18:40] Heidi: What is this trying to show me? What trigger, what do I need to work on? And so I did so much work over the past couple months doing this just every time. She even warned me. She's like, he'll probably pop back up because it'll be like a test. And sure enough, that's when he texted and wanted to meet for coffee, and the inner child slash teenager inside me was just like, yes, I was right.
[00:19:05] Heidi: All time. He's come back and seriously, it was it. Yeah. So I've had to have some inner dialogue with that. Like, all right, it's exactly how we thought it was. And he was more of a lesson or way to heal even though he had no idea that he was a part of any of this.
[00:19:24] Heidi: I even wrote him, or not wrote him, but sent him some voice messages saying, Hey, thanks for being a part of my healing journey, even though he had no idea. Because, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:37] Etienne: Well, maybe he was dreaming about you. Maybe that's why he had to, like, I know you said that he thought he was also trying to heal his karma, but maybe he was having dreams that were telling him he needed to contact you and he didn't fully understand why. And it was because you had to finish. You had to close your chapter on him.
[00:19:52] Heidi: Yeah. 'Cause I got the message in another meditation months ago, and of course, you try and deny it, but, I was given a vision of what my future was looking like, and Spirit basically said, and these guys can't come with you, you can't bring them. Once you cross over into this new phase of life, your past cannot come with you.
[00:20:14] Etienne: Okay.
[00:20:14] Heidi: Yeah. So this was months ago I got this and then, I stopped thinking about him and then bam, like he was popping in my mind and dreams. It was driving me crazy, literally. But once I started doing, oh, you're just my canary. You're just my canary. You're just my canary. Okay, what do I need to work on? Okay, what is this triggering? What is this? Read up? So, yeah. Maybe that's advice for anybody listening. If you've got an ex that just keeps popping in your mind, consider them your canary. Like what do you need to work on? What is this triggering in you?
[00:20:50] Jane: Yeah, you need to do something and it's probably not that person. It's probably something that you need to do for
[00:20:56] Heidi: Yes, yes. And it helped, it really helped lessen the craziness. 'Cause it was, I could not get him outta my head. And it seriously felt like I was having telepathy with him. I was like, get outta my freaking head.
[00:21:09] Jane: Well, it doesn't help that we're all going through puberty in reverse at this stage of our lives. And so sometimes it's very easy then to get fixated on those crush vibes of like, well, if I'm thinking about it, maybe it means that we're meant to be. And then you go into that
[00:21:22] Heidi: Oh my God. Yeah. That's what was happening. And I talked to my spiritual advisor. I'm like, what is happening? I thought I was over this guy and I felt like I was backsliding on all the work I'd done previously. And she's like, no, you're not backsliding. It's another way to, I guess, exorcise the demons of just finally get him outta my system.
[00:21:41] Etienne: Dang.
[00:21:42] Jane: I never heard of the twin flame.
[00:21:45] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:21:46] Jane: Phenomenon Right? Until you talked about it and then hearing you kind of define it and then talk about that runner chaser vibe and then the obsessive kind of component and the love at first sight thing and then the resurgence and then really the volatility.
[00:22:02] Jane: And at the end of the day, you're supposed to have taught each other something because you're some kind of mirroring something in the other person's soul.
[00:22:09] Jane: And that I think that I may have had one and did not totally resolve everything with that person until we both had children and then he got divorced and reached out to me.
[00:22:22] Jane: He called me out of nowhere and I was like, what is my high school boyfriend calling me for here? But we had this weird like makeup breakup thing and then not being together anymore, but then seeing each other every time there was a break and we were both in college and then we would just hang out and then start making out and then be like, what are we doing?
[00:22:42] Jane: Like we were just really drawn to each other and we were both writers and he was incredibly talented and had an amazing singing voice. But from the moment what we met, I just looked at him and I had a boyfriend at the time. I broke up with the other guy that day. 'Cause I was like, well this other guy is, and that was not who, I was not like, you know. A let's play the field person. I was a, I guess serial monogamist, if you will, but the feeling was so strong, it hit me as soon as I looked at him and I was like, oh my God, this guy, what? And it was mutual. But then he wanted to, like six weeks in, he was really pushing for, we should have sex. And I was like, that's not gonna happen. I'm like, way too scared. I'll let you do other things to me. Um, but um,
[00:23:28] Etienne: I will let you do other things to me
[00:23:31] Jane: Yes, I was like, but I don't wanna actually like see your penis. I
[00:23:37] Etienne: That's different from what today's girls are forced into.
[00:23:40] Jane: Yeah. I was just like, I'm not, I was terrified.
[00:23:44] Etienne: Oh God.
[00:23:45] Jane: And I realized that he was just way too into to sex for this to work. So I broke up with him. Yeah. I was like, I'm gonna release you because I know you need it, so you go do what you have to do. But because of that, he cried and he was like, but I love you. And I was like, oh my God. Yeah. And it was just this thing. And so we just had this, it felt like connective tissue between us, you know?
[00:24:09] Jane: And then, it didn't matter that I dated other people and he dated other people. We kept in touch. And then I would just run into him sometimes when I go back and see people from high school. 'Cause we had some friends in common and then, he got divorced and he had a little girl. Our girls are the same age, he said he just needed to talk to me and thank me. We both had a lot of negative religious experiences and baggage that we were working through at the same time in high school. And, he was not handling it as well, not that I was handling it beautifully, but he was having a harder time with it.
[00:24:41] Jane: And just talking to me gave him closure, he said, he just needed to have closure on that part of what he was wrestling with in high school that he was still wrestling with because then he was wrestling with the fact that he got divorced and he felt like he was violating a covenant that he made in front of God and his family and his friends.
[00:25:00] Jane: And he just felt like such a failure because he and I both had been in very similar church youth groups that kind of indoctrinated us with some ideas that were not healthy for us when it came to just sexuality generally. And, so, we would just talk through it and I talked to him off and on throughout his divorce and then that was it.
[00:25:19] Jane: And then we just kind of let each other go again. He knew that I was happily married. 'Cause we had seen each other since I had been married. So he wasn't reaching out because he thought there was a chance of anything.
[00:25:27] Jane: He just needed to work through that. But, it's weird 'cause I'd felt connected to him in some way up until that point. And now after we had that last conversation, it's like, I don't feel that anymore. So it's like that thing that, Heidi, I think you've said this to me before too, some people are in your life for a reason or a season or maybe it's both, you know?
[00:25:46] Jane: And I think that sometimes maybe that's what a twin flame could be. But ours was definitely, it was very volatile when we were young. Um,
[00:25:54] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. Same with me and my high school sweetheart. I won't even say boyfriend 'cause he was dating other people, but seeing me in between, it was bizarre.
[00:26:04] Etienne: Well Heidi, I was actually wondering 'cause you just seem very in touch with like spiritual, like psychic, uh uh. You just seem to have abilities that I think Jane and I don't have. I mean, we might have it a little bit, but I think you have it and you just have an overabundance of it. So I was wondering if maybe, do you think it's possible that just your physical attraction to somebody could cause you to then tap into them psychically and make you think that there are twin flames or soulmates or something like that? Even if
[00:26:35] Heidi: I think that's what was going on with censored cause we had some spiritual or some supernatural things that happened. Like, okay, this is getting pretty personal and deep. So one night we literally made time stand still.
[00:26:51] Etienne: Oh gosh.
[00:26:52] Heidi: We had several sessions and talks and probably 10 hours worth of stuff stuffed into like a half an hour. When we looked at the time where it's like, how
[00:27:02] Jane: When you say 10 hours of stuff, are we talking about like a sexual session? Is this what we're Okay.
[00:27:07] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:27:07] Etienne: So multiple
[00:27:09] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. So that was really weird for both of us. And then I would feel his orgasm on top of mine. The first time it happened, it startled me. I was like, what is happening? I'm having these weird, like I could feel him. And so for the longest time I thought, okay, that means our connection special. But the download I got last year was, no, no, no, no. You're the magic. You made that happen. You can do that with anybody. And so I'm like, oh, okay.
[00:27:41] Etienne: Now, you just need to do it with the right person.
[00:27:43] Heidi: Future, future partner. This is what you have to look forward to. Some supernatural sex.
[00:27:53] Etienne: Well, that's
[00:27:54] Jane: Well, which can happen with your soulmate because that has happened with my husband, to me where I had to talk to my doctor about, like, I think I left my body, but then it, it was like, I think he experienced transient global amnesia. And I was like, cool. But I was in another, I didn't tell my doctor, so at the moment of orgasm, I feel like I left my body. And then I was in a room where it was like a nothing but just white and flowy. And just foggy. And my husband was there with me and I was like, I love you. And I was like, I think we're having sex right now, but you're here with me. I'm so happy you're here. And then I was just holding his hands. And then I was back in my body again and I was like, what was that?
[00:28:31] Etienne: It sounds like you, you took a sojourn into the matrix room, like where they got their guns and stuff when they were
[00:28:37] Jane: Oh yeah. But it was a lot foggier. It was like very, very gauzy and kind of dreamlike. But I was still aware. I could kind of feel my body in the background
[00:28:49] Etienne: wild.
[00:28:50] Heidi: It's kind of similar to journeys I've taken in meditation. You go to a different place or get shown different things and yeah, you leave your body completely. That's wild. I've had telepathy with different partners. I've been able to read people's minds for sure.
[00:29:05] Heidi: Read people's energy. I was at a party once and I was like, I know exactly how everybody feels about everybody. Like
[00:29:13] Etienne: God.
[00:29:15] Heidi: Yeah, yeah. It was a new group of friends and the woman who was holding the party, it was all her friends and her best friend was there and I was kind of a newbie in the group and I could feel her hostility towards me. And she did not like me. 'Cause I think she thought, oh, you're here to take away my best friend. Yeah. It was wild. Like I could tell who was attracted to her and yeah, I was able to read the room of what everybody was feeling and doing. And then, later on you find out, oh yeah, I was right.
[00:29:46] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:29:48] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:29:49] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:29:49] Jane: That's only happened to me with a psychedelic, like a stepping stone, if you will.
[00:29:53] Jane: 'Cause the night that I met, who I feel is one of my friend's soulmates, Greg, it was his 21st birthday and I had never met him before. And we were just at a very small party at a friend's house, but we were all doing ecstasy. And I just saw him, he was sitting by himself in the corner and I was like, oh, the birthday boy's sitting by himself. That's so sad. I'm like, I'm gonna go talk to him. I had never met him before. And I just went over and I sat down in the corner with him and I was like, hi, I am Jane. Happy birthday.
[00:30:20] Jane: And he had not told anybody else it was not his birthday party. There was one other person there who knew it was his birthday. And I didn't know them yet either, that it was the first night I met that person too. And he deliberately didn't want people to know it was his birthday 'cause he didn't wanna make the night about him.
[00:30:38] Jane: It was like, you know, we were there because Jim was having people over this guy, Jim, that we just knew he was a musician and a dj and he was just having this at his house and he looked at me, he goes, how'd you know it was my birthday? And I was like, well, it is, isn't it? And he was just like, yeah. But I was rolling. So I was just like, why don't you play the guitar anymore? You were so good at it. And your poetry. You should show that to people. It's really good. And then I kind of was like freaking out 'cause I had no idea where this information was coming from.
[00:31:06] Jane: And he kind of grabbed onto me and he goes, how do you know these things? And I started crying. I was like, I don't know, but I just, I didn't want you to be alone on your birthday. Why you? And, so he will now to this day, we, I mean that was 1995. And so he calls me his 21st birthday present. And we've been friends ever since. That day we've been friends.
[00:31:25] Jane: And he introduced me to my husband.
[00:31:28] Heidi: mm-hmm.
[00:31:29] Jane: Who is my romantic soulmate. So, we have this kind of triad of friendship and we hang out together, we've taken vacations together. Like he's our daughter's godfather and we call him the conduit. We even had a t-shirt made. We him that just says the conduit on it. 'Cause he knows what it means. He was the conduit for us finding each other. But it was definitely immediate, just hitting me, like this knowledge from nowhere and everywhere, all at once. And then when he introduced me to Brendon, my now husband, it was on July 6th, 1996. And we were at a rave. And as soon as I saw him, I felt like, and I was completely stone cold sober. I felt like, like just electricity. My body was just full of just like, like z you know? And then, and he hugged me. He hugged me and I was just like, whoa. And he was with somebody else and I was with somebody else and I was just like, I don't think I could hug this boy for any longer than a couple seconds.
[00:32:24] Jane: 'Cause there's something there. And I just tucked that information in the back of my head and we just kept running into each other because I was friends with Greg and he was friends with Greg. And then, yeah, it just kept happening until we were both available. We were having an argument about where the best place to see the sunset was. And he was on Long Island and he was convinced that it was this one beach. But I had been to that beach and had seen the sunset there. And while it was nice, it was not as good as the beach that I was suggesting. And I was like, well, there's only one way to settle this. You have to come to Morgan's Park and see the sunset there.
[00:32:57] Jane: And he was like, all right, well what are you doing tomorrow? And I was like, I guess I'm going to see the sunset with you. You know? And then we've literally been together since then. And that was July 13th, 2000. So
[00:33:09] Etienne: You win that bet about the sunset?
[00:33:11] Jane: Yeah, he, and he knows it. He
[00:33:13] Etienne: Sorry, that was
[00:33:15] Jane: Yeah, he knows it. So the next time you guys are at my house, you'll see in my bedroom there is a picture that my sister took of the 'cause he then proposed at that spot. Um, and so she then took pictures. And so the sunset's behind us and it's just our silhouettes. And, some people don't, when they see that picture, they don't realize it's us 'cause my sister blew it up and put it on a canvas. So it just looks like a painting it, two people with a sunset behind him, but it's us. And,
[00:33:43] Heidi: That's really
[00:33:43] Etienne: Where is it on your
[00:33:44] Heidi: so cool.
[00:33:45] Jane: It's, uh, it's in our
[00:33:46] Etienne: Okay.
[00:33:47] Heidi: I've seen it before. I remember being really surprised, like, oh, it's you guys. That's amazing.
[00:33:52] Jane: 'Cause people were just like, oh, that's a really cool picture. And I was like, yeah, it's us. And, but I knew, and Heidi knows this, that I don't think, you know this Etty, but when I was younger, when I was first going through, even really before puberty, like throughout my life, I'd have this recurring dream, 'cause you were talking about spiritual connections, Etty.
[00:34:10] Jane: So I would have this dream and I used to just call him the imaginary boy. And I would have dreams that I was just kissing this boy or holding hands with him. I could never see his face. I could tell that he had dark hair. But I could never see his face. And, for a good chunk of my life, I'm having dreams about that.
[00:34:26] Jane: And I would like, go for months without having a dream, but then it would happen again. And I would always wake up and just feel so homesick for this person that I was totally invented, right? And then, as I got older, I would do more and more stuff with the imaginary boy, and I would wake up and I'd be like, ah, uh, this was you guys.
[00:34:42] Jane: I wish he was, he was real, and he would talk, but I couldn't totally hear his voice and then, but I know how he felt when I was with him. I know how it felt to be held by him and to kiss him. And so, once Brendan and I were together, when we first kissed, the first night, after the sunset, we went back to my apartment and proceeded to make out for three hours.
[00:35:04] Jane: I just knew it was him. Like I was like that. And that's how I knew. I would feel like the romantic soulmate thing is like, oh my God, I'm, I'm home.
[00:35:14] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:15] Jane: and there were so, yeah,
[00:35:16] Heidi: like home.
[00:35:17] Jane: And I never had that dream again. And I had had that dream since I was like, I don't know, like eight years old. I have journal entries about the imaginary boy from when I started writing down some of the sexier stuff in high school, I was like, I had sex with the imaginary boy.
[00:35:30] Jane: And I was like, oh my God. It was him the whole time. And there was the other spiritual thing is that I used to collect these marbles from a marble factory in West Virginia, whatever. So I had this marble collection and I moved around a lot. And what I would do is every time somebody came over to my house and went to my room for the first time and we were hanging out, I would tell them that they could pick a marble. And so, as I got older, I had less and less marbles. And so it got to be where I just had, I had a marble left and I gave it to Brendon and
[00:36:00] Etienne: He got the.
[00:36:00] Jane: He got my marble. He got my marble, but he was just like, oh, he made a little pouch for it and stuff. But I just thought like, there were just all these
[00:36:11] Heidi: It was like your countdown to meeting
[00:36:13] Etienne: Oh wow.
[00:36:14] Heidi: That's so wild. I love that. I got goosebumps right
[00:36:18] Jane: I gave away a lot of marbles and I kissed a lot of frogs, but then I ended up with, then I ended up home. So I think that that's for me, that that's what the different kinds of soulmates, friends definitely have a lot of friends who, you
[00:36:30] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:36:30] Jane: are soulmates
[00:36:31] Heidi: we're soulmates for
[00:36:32] Jane: A hundred percent, you know, so I think that people should expand their definition
[00:36:37] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:38] Jane: it. But the romantic one definitely.
[00:36:40] Etienne: Well, twin flame definitely said it didn't have to be a romantic like person. It could be a friend or you know, sibling or. So the twin flame
[00:36:48] Jane: oh, wait for
[00:36:48] Etienne: for Twin Flame? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:36:51] Heidi: Yeah. It can be platonic. Yep.
[00:36:53] Etienne: Yeah.
[00:36:54] Heidi: Yep. Yeah, they, okay. So I should probably give the definition.
[00:37:01] Heidi: So they consider it a soul that's been split. And so that's why when you meet your twin flame, it feels like soul recognition. Like, oh, you're me. A lot of times they're opposites.
[00:37:11] Heidi: It truly is like a mirror. They're showing you what you lack what you need to work on and vice versa. It's more of a healing relationship than, and that's what I'm coming to discover. This journey, whatever it was, it was more about me, getting back to me and healing myself and, growing as a person evolving, and that's one thing, like I, I don't think these other men, they haven't grown.
[00:37:38] Etienne: No
[00:37:39] Heidi: I don't think, yeah
[00:37:40] Etienne: I don't think I've actually met my twin flame in any form, honestly.
[00:37:43] Etienne: But, I think I did meet a soulmate in censored for sure. 'Cause that coming home feeling you're talking about Oh yeah. Like immediately. Like the very next day, that night probably, but I was way too drunk. But the next day when I wasn't drunk, when I was hungover the next day, uh, I felt, yeah, I felt like I didn't wanna ever leave being around him.
[00:38:06] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:38:07] Etienne: I just wanted to be there. It just felt so wonderful and
[00:38:11] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:11] Etienne: safe, but also exciting and romantic. Yeah, it was everything.
[00:38:16] Heidi: Yep. And soulmates don't last for a lifetime either. Sometimes, it's just a few years or however long you need with that person before you go onto your next phase of life. Yeah, I'm hoping for that kinda love. I used to be such a sucker for love and reading love poems and listening to love songs. God, I was addicted to love, I think in my twenties. It was ridiculous. And maybe that's why I've had such a trouble finding someone that can meet my level, because I am a little extra.
[00:38:52] Etienne: I don't think you're extra. I mean, I think you're wonderfully, how about this? I think you're wonderfully over the top. Not extra, but like, you have so much, I don't think, because I think of extra as being like, oh, you're a little bit off. That's what I always, that's the way the young girls that I work with, that's what they say. They say extra. They mean touched in a way you don't wanna be around them, you know, like,
[00:39:14] Jane: Yeah,
[00:39:15] Etienne: like, but I don't, that's not you.
[00:39:19] Heidi: No, no, I
[00:39:20] Jane: No, and you're not high maintenance. And you're not extra.
[00:39:23] Heidi: That's the thing, like, yeah, I'm not looking for anybody. I'm not looking for somebody with a lot of money. I don't care. I've lived in the big house. Um,
[00:39:34] Etienne: wanna hobosexual either. The
[00:39:37] Heidi: no.
[00:39:38] Jane: Ugh.
[00:39:39] Etienne: of themselves.
[00:39:40] Heidi: Yeah, yeah. Someone who's healthy, someone who can take care of themselves, someone who's got a sense of humor. Yeah.
[00:39:46] Jane: Oh my gosh. The laughing part is so important.
[00:39:49] Etienne: Oh man. If somebody doesn't
[00:39:50] Jane: like you.
[00:39:51] Etienne: there's no No way. No way in. Hell
[00:39:54] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:55] Jane: You don't have to find every single thing that the other person finds funny. But there has to be a really big section of that Venn diagram where you both think certain things are funny.
[00:40:06] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:40:06] Jane: I don't know. I remember one of my soulmate friends who, we have unfortunately lost touch, and is not for my lack of trying , I think she just was in a dark place in her life. And, I don't know what was going on. I have tried old school mail and I know she was getting my Christmas cards and letters, 'cause I was getting some Christmas cards, at least in response, but nothing written down.
[00:40:30] Jane: And then all of a sudden they started coming back, return to sender, and then her phone number then stopped working and it just said like, this is no longer a number. It's not like even somebody else's number. I'm like, what is happening? It was to the point where I was looking up obituaries to make sure that nothing, because other people were having the same issue that we went
[00:40:51] Etienne: God. She just dropped out of everybody's lives that you know.
[00:40:54] Jane: She has no digital footprint, she never had social media, so we're all just like, what happened? But, I loved this girl and she really was there for me and was my best friend through like really, really dark times in high school. When I was going through stuff where my stepfather was being abusive and she was my safe haven. And,
[00:41:12] Etienne: Was she the one whose house you went to when you were trying to escape your house?
[00:41:16] Jane: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, she was amazing. And we would call each other backdoor friends where she would come around and it'd come through my garage or to the basement. We both knew each other's parents and stuff.
[00:41:27] Jane: Yeah. So she was about to get married, and she had come to my wedding and she got along with Brendon and then she met my daughter after she was born. And she had kissed a lot of frogs too.
[00:41:38] Jane: And then she finally was like, Hey, I have someone and I we're gonna get married, and I want you to be there. And I was like, awesome. And I was so excited. But then when I met him, I was like, this is not her soulmate. And I didn't wanna be like the friend who was judgey, like, you're not good enough for my friend. It wasn't like that. He went to shake, I don't know if you've ever shaken someone's hand and it just was like a dead fish in your hand. Like, it was
[00:41:59] Etienne: but
[00:42:00] Jane: just like, ugh.
[00:42:00] Etienne: would do that, so I can't believe a man did that.
[00:42:03] Jane: Dude, it was just rough, you know? And then I spent the whole week with her before her wedding, 'cause she had done the same for me. And I'm like, I'm here. I have a baby. But, she's only four months old. I could just strap her to me like, she's not doing anything yet. She can't even crawl. So I just strapped my daughter to me and just went to her house. And, I was living in South Carolina so I could just drive to Georgia and just hang out with her.
[00:42:27] Jane: And she was telling me, she's like, oh yeah, we don't really laugh together. We just don't find the same things funny. And I was like, wait at all? And she's like, yeah, no, not at all. I'm like,
[00:42:36] Etienne: Oh.
[00:42:37] Jane: Oh no. And so she was telling me she was having doubts. So in the days leading up to her wedding, I was like, listen, if you don't wanna do this, I am here to make all of these. Like flower arrangements for you and centerpieces, and I'll do all the shit you want me to do. But if one of those things that you want me to do is drive you far, far away from here so you can think through this and send out like, sorry, but we're not doing this. Or make an announcement and tell people like, we're not doing
[00:43:02] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:03] Jane: I'll do that too.
[00:43:04] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:05] Jane: And I'm telling you she thought about it. I could see it her, and I was like, ah. But she went through with it. And I know that she wasn't happy 'cause she would, early in her marriage, she would call me and she'd be, uh, uh, and it wasn't, it wasn't good.
[00:43:16] Jane: So I'm just saying folks out there, if you're holding out, just don't settle. Don't settle. 'Cause I've just seen people settle and it eats their soul, even from just the pretending to be happy. And then they sometimes can trick themselves into believing it. For a short period of
[00:43:33] Etienne: I can't be forever though. You can't trick yourself forever or you'll go insane. I assume you would go insane to have that level of denial on a daily
[00:43:41] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:42] Jane: So yeah, he was not her soulmate. And I do think that one of the requirements for a soulmate is that you do have to have some things in common that you think are funny. If you cannot laugh at some stuff together, you're not gonna make it.
[00:43:54] Etienne: I went on a couple dates with, or a date with somebody who had no sense of humor, and I could tell right away that there was something so off about him. And he literally, I was making jokes and they're not great jokes. I don't make great jokes, but like he wasn't. There was like dead face, just completely, I'm laughing at my own joke and he is just dead face and I'm like, what is happening? Am I talking? Can you hear me?
[00:44:19] Jane: Is this thing on? Oh my God. But you're such a, you such a contagious laugh and such a beautiful smile that he gave you nothing.
[00:44:28] Etienne: He gave me nothing. It was just like, just dead. Like, like a psychopath. And I really thought he might have been a psychopath. How can you, how can you not respond in any No, nothing changed in the face. Nothing changed in
[00:44:42] Heidi: And he didn't try and crack any jokes himself.
[00:44:45] Etienne: I don't think he had the capability, honestly. Just like, yeah, and he wanted to
[00:44:50] Heidi: Yeah. I
[00:44:51] Etienne: to go out again, and I'm like, no. He's like, but please. I'm like, no. He, he kept trying for like months. He was texting me. I'm like, this is not happening. Like, I'm so
[00:45:00] Jane: did you tell him like, you don't think anything's funny? So we're done here.
[00:45:05] Etienne: I just said I don't think we have much in common. I was trying not to be mean. I was just like, this is, no, no, I'm sorry. You, there's someone out there for you. It is not me.
[00:45:15] Heidi: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:18] Jane: I mean, that's how I thought this guy Medwin, it's such an unusual name, don't edit that out 'cause I don't care if he hears this 'cause he was kind of a dick about a lot of things anyway. He was so hot and we had some hot times together, but I thought like, oh, maybe he's my soulmate. Because when we first met, he sang a Beatles song in my ear, and he, he, oh yeah, I was such a sucker. He sang, I've just seen a phase in my ear from the Beatles Rubber Soul album, and I'm such a Beatles freak. And I had just met him, and that's the song that he sings to me. It was perfect, you know? And then on our first date, he took me to see U2
[00:45:56] Heidi: Wow.
[00:45:57] Jane: And um, yeah, it was the zoo TV tour. And I was just like, this is amazing. And then we went ice skating and held hands and went to a French restaurant, and he was just like, he wrote me a poem. I mean, just like all the right things,
[00:46:09] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:46:10] Jane: But a couple months in, I realized that we hadn't shared any laughs together, and you guys have both been around me when I get a little bit punchy, and I wasn't, I was like a little, we had gone out to eat and so I had a little bit of a wine buzz from dinner, but I wasn't drunk.
[00:46:26] Jane: I was just happily buzzy. And it was springtime in New York City and we were having a good night and then we walked down into the subway, and we're waiting for the subway. And I, to this day, I do not remember what was hitting me as funny, but we had seen something happen, like an interaction between people and I was just kind of like doing a little reenactment of it, but in a comical way. I'm just gonna let you know that it was funny,
[00:46:50] Heidi: Oh, you're very funny.
[00:46:51] Jane: It was
[00:46:52] Heidi: been laughing. I
[00:46:53] Jane: I don't remember what it was because what happened afterwards was so, I guess emotionally more important than whatever I thought was so freaking hilarious. Right. But I'm laughing so hard, you know when you're laughing so hard that you feel like you just cannot walk. Like you have to sit down right now or you might piss your pants.
[00:47:08] Heidi: Oh, yeah, yeah,
[00:47:09] Jane: And I'm just like, I'm like, like, I'm like wheezing. I'm laughing so hard. And I'm like, and not necessarily at myself, just the whole situation, but then me, replaying it and then so I'm leaning up against the wall, just laughing. And then I just sat down right there. And his response was, get the fuck up. He's like, well, you could just, well you could just sit down, stop laughing. He was just like, you're being embarrassing. First of all, I was not being embarrassing. It was funny. It was, we were on the subway. We weren't like at the Ritz Carlton. I'm like, what is, so
[00:47:36] Etienne: Hit the red screen.
[00:47:37] Jane: also, we're like 19
[00:47:40] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:47:40] Jane: How can, if you cannot, if you can't take yourself less seriously at 19. Well I was 19. He, how old was he? We had wine at the restaurant, but I, I just think that people didn't really card at this restaurant. We were at a nice French restaurant anyway, but he was being such a stick in the mud. And I looked up from where I was sitting on the subway platform and I was like, he is not my soul mate. If does not think that this shit is funny. I don't know where we go from here.
[00:48:07] Etienne: Oh my God
[00:48:08] Jane: And we didn't go anywhere from there.
[00:48:10] Etienne: That was your last date, obviously, or no?
[00:48:12] Jane: Yeah, yeah. We saw each other again to say goodbye 'cause he was leaving to go to England and I was actually going to England a couple months later to go
[00:48:21] Etienne: Wait, this isn't the guy who tried to get back with you when you were in England, right? Or is it Oh, God,
[00:48:26] Heidi: Oh God.
[00:48:27] Jane: And I was like, yeah dude, this is not, um,
[00:48:31] Etienne: Medwin.
[00:48:31] Jane: you know,
[00:48:32] Etienne: How do you, how do you spell his name? Is it Edwin with a m in the,
[00:48:36] Jane: M-E-D-W-I-N. Yeah. Medwin and, um, yeah, not, I don't know what he thinks is funny, but we were together off and on for a year and a half, and I don't remember laughing with him.
[00:48:51] Heidi: Oh my god.
[00:48:52] Jane: How did I do? Why did I do that? Don't do that.
[00:48:55] Heidi: Because you're serial monogamous. You thought, I'm in it.
[00:48:58] Etienne: I gotta at least be in it for a year and a half. That's a bare minimum.
[00:49:01] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:49:02] Jane: ah, you
[00:49:03] Heidi: Well, all, all of us have stayed too long.
[00:49:06] Etienne: Yeah, we have
[00:49:08] Heidi: We've all done it. You look back and you're like,
[00:49:10] Etienne: At least it was only a year and a half Jane, compared to
[00:49:13] Heidi: Yeah, yeah. It wasn't a marriage and it wasn't like 20 years later, two kids and you're like, dang, I've never left.
[00:49:21] Etienne: Oh my God
[00:49:23] Jane: That'd be so sad. 'cause there's sometimes, like Brendon and I will laugh so hard at things that are just like, I mean our face is hurt, you know, just,
[00:49:29] Etienne: You guys make my face hurt all
[00:49:31] Heidi: Yeah. I know.
[00:49:33] Etienne: over here squishing my cheeks, like I can't
[00:49:35] Heidi: My belly hurts from all the belly laughs. I feel like I got an ab workout after hanging out with you.
[00:49:42] Jane: And our daughter, she also has a good mix of both of our senses of humor. And she has a very dark sense of humor, that sometimes she definitely, that's more him than me. He's very dark. Sometimes he laughs and I'm like, I also think this is funny. I'm going to hell for laughing at this. So I laugh at it with that noise. Like, ooh. It's like,
[00:50:00] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:50:02] Jane: But uh, it's, it's still funny.
[00:50:06] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:50:08] Jane: I don't know. I feel like that is definitely part of the soulmate thing
[00:50:12] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:13] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:15] Heidi: Yep. You need to be able to laugh together. Need to be able to cry together. Like so, you know, looking for somebody emotionally available. And I'm finding it hard dating. Yeah. Not many guys out there, they're so wounded and nobody's doing any work.
[00:50:33] Etienne: Oh God. They're just like, I'll just go to the next person and she'll fix me.
[00:50:37] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. That, I think that's what they're looking for. They're looking for someone to fix them, and it's like, no, no, no. This is
[00:50:44] Etienne: I, I will be alone for the rest of my life. I'm not fixing anybody.
[00:50:51] Heidi: No, I, I'm done. I'm,
[00:50:53] Etienne: Heidi, we can get married. We'll be platonic marriage. No sex, sorry. But we can be married.
[00:50:59] Heidi: You know what I'm interested, I'm in interested in lavender marriage personally.
[00:51:04] Jane: What is that?
[00:51:04] Etienne: never heard
[00:51:05] Heidi: You've never heard of lavender marriages. It's where you get married to a gay man
[00:51:11] Jane: Oh, I didn't
[00:51:13] Heidi: So you have your buddy. Yeah. You're, you know, you're, yeah. You're, you're just friends, but you're married for convenience. I guess.
[00:51:21] Etienne: Okay.
[00:51:22] Heidi: They were really big, you
[00:51:23] Etienne: Back in like the sixties or fifties or
[00:51:25] Heidi: Yeah, 50 sixties. Yeah. Lots,
[00:51:28] Etienne: when people could like get murdered For sure. For being gay, you know, or
[00:51:33] Heidi: Well, yeah. So they could go through society as like a normal person. But yeah, they're a lot of times sometimes they were both gay
[00:51:42] Etienne: perfect
[00:51:42] Heidi: married. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:51:44] Etienne: Ooh, what if he could bring people over? If you were a female and he's a gay man, you're heterosexual female. He's a gay man. He could bring bisexual men over
[00:51:54] Jane: Ooh.
[00:51:55] Etienne: And then, you know, just not boyfriend.
[00:51:57] Heidi: both have a boyfriend, the same boyfriend. You're sharing a
[00:52:00] Etienne: yeah. Just like visits both of you. Like one at a time.
[00:52:05] Heidi: Oh my god.
[00:52:06] Jane: I feel like I need to write some fan fiction based on this, like right
[00:52:10] Etienne: Alternative lifestyle.
[00:52:12] Heidi: There's a guy I, I follow on TikTok and he's the one that kind of brought up the lot. He's like, let's bring back lavender marriages, and I'll make sure you don't leave the house looking crappy. And I'll hold you
[00:52:26] Etienne: Oh, you can cuddle. Yeah.
[00:52:29] Heidi: Cuddling. He was up for cuddling and breakfast in bed and all this stuff. And the women in the comments were like, yes, sign me up. 'Cause he was hot too, he's just very nice to look at. So it's like, yes, sign me up. I
[00:52:43] Jane: Oh, I guess you could just like flirt and, and watch rom-coms together and just have all of the emotional vulnerability and then it could be your date to things like you could be your plus one to all of these events, so some relatives stop giving you shit, and then whatever. Then you go off and do your own thing.
[00:52:59] Etienne: Yeah. Speaking of hot men, I saw F1 last week and I think I have to see it again.
[00:53:06] Heidi: What's F1? I
[00:53:07] Etienne: The Brad Pitt movie. The racing movie?
[00:53:09] Heidi: Oh,
[00:53:10] Jane: was gonna say, is it about formula One.
[00:53:12] Etienne: Oh my God, you guys, there is no 61-year-old like him. Seriously. He's 61. He's had his shirt off in the movie. He is laying on a couch and he looks so good. Oh my God.
[00:53:24] Heidi: Oh, speaking of celebrity crushes, I had a dream about Matthew McConaughey recently. It was wild. I've had a crush on him since Lone Star. But yeah, he appeared in a dream and he had developed some kind of technology and I was using it differently, but also helping people with this technology. We were in a room and we were arguing, he was just like, that's not how you use it. And I was arguing back and I don't know, he thought that was hot or something, grabbed me and started kissing me and yeah
[00:53:54] Etienne: Nice.
[00:53:55] Heidi: it turned into like this hot, and I remember it because the last three years during the spiritual journey that I've been on, I haven't dreamed a whole lot. So when I do dream
[00:54:06] Jane: Really.
[00:54:07] Heidi: I remember 'em now. I had one that involved censored a couple years ago. I had gone to I guess his workplace or whatever, and I'm looking for him in the dream. And this Indian man comes up and is like, hi, I'm censored. What do you need? And I'm like, you're not censored And he is like, yes, I am. I'm like, no, you're not. And I was so confused. I was like, okay, whatever. And I'm leaving and the real censored comes up and I run into him or whatever, and I'm like, why would you have some rando try and pretend to be you? It was the weirdest dream.
[00:54:40] Heidi: But, I saw the symbology in it. Okay, he's not who I think he is kind of thing. So yeah, sometimes they can have symbology and sometimes they're just sex dreams with Matthew McConaughey.
[00:54:52] Etienne: I take those every day.
[00:54:54] Jane: A hundred percent.
[00:54:56] Heidi: Yeah.
[00:54:58] Jane: This is actually, having my real life soulmate, who is also very good at sex has ruined sex dreams for me, for the duration of my life. And, he says the same thing about his dreams. Like, if we're having a sex dream that involves somebody else, all of a sudden we remember that we're married to each other and we're like, oh my God, stop.
[00:55:15] Jane: What's happening? And then, I get like, really? It's like all of a sudden I remember that I'm married and I'm like, what am I doing? And the only time that I could just let loose with it is if I am having a lucid dream about it. But that even then, I feel a little icky. I have to know that it's a dream. If I know it's a dream, then it's like, all right, I can do pretty much whatever I want, but if I don't, that's one of the things. So there's no Matthew McConaughey in my future.
[00:55:41] Etienne: I would feel bad for you, Jane, but you are in an awesome marriage, so
[00:55:45] Heidi: Yeah,
[00:55:45] Etienne: do not
[00:55:46] Jane: my husband's hot. My husband's hot.
[00:55:48] Heidi: Yeah
[00:55:49] Jane: I do have dreams, I have sex dreams, about my own husband. That is how, yeah, it's pretty cool. And sometimes I have dreams, we're just our younger selves again. Not that he's, he's still like,
[00:56:00] Etienne: See Brendon's gonna make the Brad Pitt 61-year-old body like probably be shameful. I bet you Brendon's
[00:56:06] Jane: Yeah. He's about to be
[00:56:08] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[00:56:08] Jane: He's about to be 50, and he is on this mission to look better than he ever has. And, I was like, okay, cool. I don't know. I think that that's another thing that is a soulmate requirement. Like for me, one of the tells is they make you wanna be the best version of yourself
[00:56:22] Etienne: Oh yes.
[00:56:23] Heidi: Yes.
[00:56:25] Jane: can be a good, I mean like from the moment.
[00:56:27] Heidi: And you both feel that way.
[00:56:28] Jane: Yes. Like from the moment we started
[00:56:30] Heidi: for them. Yeah.
[00:56:31] Jane: and we wanted to learn new things together and do them together. And then also to have enough space apart where all go off and have something interesting happen to you and then come tell me about it. And without, with zero jealousy for each other's time.
[00:56:44] Jane: You know what I mean? That was the other tell for me. And, he just inspired me to wanna be me amplified. We made each other better 'cause we were cheering each other on, we were still like, I was early in my teaching career at the time still and he was learning to be a pilot and this is how I knew I must be in love with him.
[00:57:01] Jane: You guys both know that I'm not a good flyer and I'm terrified of flying. But I went up with him when he only had like freaking 60 hours as a pilot. That is terrifying to me now. I'm like, how the fuck? That's how blinded by love I was. I was like,
[00:57:14] Heidi: Okay. I'll die with you
[00:57:17] Jane: Yeah.
[00:57:18] Heidi: if we go down. Go down together.
[00:57:21] Jane: Well, I, yeah, and I went with then when he did his first solo flight, when he was checked out in a jet engine, turbine helicopter for the first time. And I found out later that he was nervous. He'll recount that story now and be like, that was terrifying. I can't believe that, that we did that. I was like, well, we're still here. That was 20 years ago. Let's not fall on it too much. But it was early, early days for him knowing how to fly. And I hate flying unless I'm with him. And see, that was the other thing. Because I trust him, I literally trust him with my life.
[00:57:49] Jane: I'm like, sure, I'll get into this trash can in the sky. Let's go see some stuff, and the first time we went up, he actually flew then over that place where we saw the sunset for the first time together and got to see it from the air at sunset. And I was like, this is really cool. Literally looking at something from a different perspective with the person.
[00:58:06] Heidi: So that's another thing. They do romantic things for you. They don't take you for granted.
[00:58:10] Etienne: Yeah, no, they shouldn't.
[00:58:12] Heidi: Yeah. 'Cause you guys still romance each other. You still date each other. That's what I'm looking for too. Someone who's wanting to put in the work.
[00:58:20] Jane: Literally the man still makes me cry. Every card he gives me, I'm crying. It's ridiculous. For our last wedding anniversary, did you, I think Heidi or maybe Etty, you saw it on the wall? It wasn't for our last anniversary. It was for our 20th anniversary. It's your platinum anniversary, your 20th anniversary. I didn't know that, but he looked it up. I thought that you didn't get any like that. Each anniversary has something to it, and I didn't know this, but in the past he had done that. He's like, yeah, that's why I got you that for that anniversary and that for this. I'm like, oh, boy. I'm like, I am slacking. Yeah. But so for our platinum anniversary, he got me, it's a record, it's a platinum record. And it's in a shadow box hanging on the wall in our hallways. The next time you're at my house, you could see it. It's a custom made record. It says Brendon and Jane's 20th anniversary and it has our wedding song, which is Paul McCartney's, maybe I'm amazed. And then it has the other love songs that we played at our wedding.
[00:59:14] Etienne: Oh my God.
[00:59:16] Heidi: Hmm. That's really, really special. That's, that's, that is
[00:59:21] Jane: started to cry and then the anniversary before that. Oh, here we go. Exhibit B, and then we will, I don't know if I can show you, but, I'll show you guys later if I do it now, I'm gonna probably knock the microphone up. It's on the wall. But we met at a rave I told you, like on July 6th, 1996. So two things that he did, he tracked down on eBay, the back in the day, a lot of times they had flyers that they would put out for it. So he tracked down the original flyer, which is like a poster for that rave. It was called Fantasia two. It was the second Fantasia. There was. And it was in Randall's Island, in New York. So he tracked down that flyer and had it framed. He's big on framing and shadow boxes. So there's that. And then the other thing, he had framed for a different anniversary. Was a picture of the exit to Randall's Island, which is where that rave was, because it was kind of symbolic 'cause that exit is not called that anymore. Um, so he found also on eBay, good gift ideas on eBay folks. They're not paying me to say this, but he tracked out a photograph that somebody had taken of that exit and then framed that.
[01:00:29] Heidi: Wow.
[01:00:29] Jane: I'm looking at another thing he had framed for me. This is all in the same area of the house. Um, it was one of my favorite William Blake poems.
[01:00:36] Heidi: Oh.
[01:00:37] Jane: But with the illumination that William Blake used to like, burn these in, made these engravings of his poems. So he would do artwork on it, with this weird artistic method where it was done using corrosive acid on metal.
[01:00:50] Jane: You can go see these plates. A lot of them are in the British museum, but he found a lithograph print of one of those illumination engravings and had it framed for me. Because he pays attention.
[01:01:01] Heidi: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:02] Jane: I think that's the thing. They pay attention. Like I know all the things that he likes. I know his favorite songs, his favorite bands, his favorite things to eat, the things he thinks are funny. I know that he is not ticklish no matter how much I try. And it really freaks me out 20 something years later. How can you not be ticklish? But anyways, it's the only
[01:01:17] Etienne: he's just lucky.
[01:01:18] Jane: tick.
[01:01:20] Heidi: Yeah
[01:01:20] Etienne: I wish I had not been ticklish growing up.
[01:01:24] Jane: But
[01:01:24] Etienne: Oh,
[01:01:25] Jane: Enough of me gushing over my soulmate. Seriously, I wish this for everybody. That is my wish for the world.
[01:01:29] Etienne: All right. Well, you need to start meditating and putting out to all the women, but especially us that we will all find our perfect soulmate this year or next year. How about that?
[01:01:43] Heidi: Yeah. Let's manifest that.
[01:01:44] Etienne: Yeah
[01:01:45] Heidi: It's happening. I feel it. I do, I feel like
[01:01:48] Etienne: I don't even care. Like I feel fine. Like I think Heidi, you feel the same way. You did all the work on yourself, so you feel complete on your own, so you don't feel like you need somebody else. But you know, to have somebody to like experience
[01:02:02] Heidi: I want it though. Yeah. Because I do miss it. Like, my ex and I we're not together, but I think we were soulmates too, 'cause we had a lot in common. We laughed a lot. We grew together. There was some bad parts and we eventually dissolved and we're still friendly. But, yeah, I want that, but expanded.
[01:02:23] Jane: 2.0.
[01:02:24] Heidi: Yeah. 2.0, best friend. Yeah. Someone who's gonna cheer you on and not take you for granted and still date you 20 years later.
[01:02:34] Etienne: Yes. So censored 2.0 and I need censored 2.0.
[01:02:39] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. The new and improved the, yeah, the healthy. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:02:46] Etienne: secure, adjusted.
[01:02:49] Jane: Adjusted. Yes.
[01:02:52] Heidi: Yes. They've rewired their
[01:02:54] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:55] Heidi: So they're not taking out their trauma on you.
[01:02:58] Etienne: Healthy physically.
[01:03:00] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. All of it.
[01:03:02] Etienne: On the same wavelength of how we treat our bodies, you know? Let's do that. Yeah.
[01:03:06] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. I'm done with
[01:03:08] Etienne: Mm-hmm.
[01:03:09] Jane: Soulmate 2025. That's
[01:03:11] Etienne: Oh, that's,
[01:03:12] Jane: yes.
[01:03:12] Etienne: Soulmate 2025.
[01:03:15] Heidi: Yeah. It's like we're on tour
[01:03:19] Jane: Yes. The world tour. Let's do it.
[01:03:24] Etienne: Oh
[01:03:24] Heidi: in search of soulmates.
[01:03:26] Etienne: Well one day maybe we could go around the country and do a live podcast recordings.
[01:03:31] Heidi: That would be fun.
[01:03:32] Jane: I thought you were gonna be like live interviews for soulmates
[01:03:36] Etienne: I mean, if people wanna apply, I will gladly interview you. Sure you can apply for the job. Yeah, I'm open to possibilities. Can't guarantee anything.
[01:03:50] Heidi: Oh my gosh. This reminded me of, didn't there used to be like you could put little ads, like personal singles ads? Yes. And people would write to you. Oh my gosh. I wonder
[01:04:01] Jane: search of like, that was the original acronyms, like single white female, like I would be like,
[01:04:06] Heidi: we should bring that back.
[01:04:08] Etienne: Oh my God.
[01:04:09] Jane: I think it's
[01:04:10] Etienne: We gonna, yeah. Where are we gonna put that? Where on our, where does that go?
[01:04:15] Heidi: But how did I, I wonder how that all worked because there, you know, there's no photo
[01:04:20] Etienne: number, I think. I think they wrote to like the newspaper itself with that, like there was a number attached to that ad. And so then they would just, I think, I don't know if they had to come pick up their mail from that, or, I don't know how that works, but I
[01:04:35] Heidi: I'm just wondering if there was ever matches that actually happened from those
[01:04:38] Etienne: I bet there is, there was.
[01:04:39] Jane: You ever pay attention to the words in that song. Oh, what was it called? The actual name of the song? I think it's called The Escape or something, but it's like, do you like Pina
[01:04:48] Etienne: Oh yeah.
[01:04:48] Jane: and Getting
[01:04:49] Heidi: The Pina Colada Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:04:51] Jane: That whole song is about a guy putting a personal ad in the paper.
[01:04:56] Etienne: Really?
[01:04:57] Jane: Yes. Like he's answering. It's actually she, his girlfriend puts the ad in the personals. He sees it, listen to this song again.
[01:05:07] Heidi: Oh my
[01:05:07] Jane: sees it and answers the ad by like, basically it's kind of like the ad says like, meet me here. Because some of them would say like, you know, meet me on this date at this restaurant.
[01:05:16] Jane: And so he shows up in response to the ad and realizes that it's her. And so they see each other in this new light now. Like, oh, I didn't know that you liked Pina Coladas and getting lost in the rain, like I do
[01:05:28] Etienne: and he is not super pissed that she was looking for somebody and that he was
[01:05:31] Jane: No, they're actually, they, well, they laugh about it because she put out the ad and he answered it. So they were both looking for the same thing and not realizing it was in front of them the whole
[01:05:41] Etienne: Okay. I did not know that. I'm gonna have to, that's Spotify now.
[01:05:45] Heidi: I'm, yes. I'm gonna listen to it
[01:05:47] Jane: They were soulmates, but they had just gotten lazy and didn't realize that they could show up for each other in a different way. So I'm not suggesting that everybody who's in a shitty relationship should just reassess to see if they're their soulmate. But sometimes people do get complacent and maybe need to reignite that flame.
[01:06:03] Heidi: Yeah. Jarred awake. Yeah. I'm not desperate, I'm not needy. My heart is open. I'm not guarded, you know?
[01:06:11] Jane: I do think if you remain vigilant and you're a good searcher and you're patient, you'll find them.
[01:06:17] Heidi: That's our show you've been listening to, The Women are Plotting. If you have a story you'd like to share or have any comments, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at info@thewomenarepolotting.com and of course you can find us on all the socials. Thanks, and until next time, be safe and be excellent to each other.
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